Please, Explain the same.

[#1]

Hello,

SDN Forums is the only place I know where 3 people out of 4 are always speaking about "the same".

"Do the needful for the same", "Help for the same", etc...

I have never heard people talking about "the same" in each sentence when traveling in Great Britain or the USA.

Could any one explain what this really mean ?

Is this an expression or a literal translation from an other language ?

Greetings,

Curious Olivier

[Former Member]

Hi,

Thanks to all for explaining the same and for the links to the same hilarious threads.

So it seems that the new game in town is to use the same world as much as possible.

Therefore I will try now to do the same as everyone.

same Olivier as before but educated now !

[Former Member]

Thanks for the same

[ThomasZloch]

There is also some creativity in politely circumventing forbidden phrases.

"anticipating your quick positive help" -> "ur-gent"

"Kindly suggest with a solution as an earliest" -> "ur-gent"

"any pointers will be highly appreciated" -> "poings will be rewarded"

[stephenjohannes]

I'm also trying to figure out where "the same" is used in normal conversations here in the midwest and finally figured it out.

Normally the phrase is "Can you please do the same?" and is associated with a negative connotation aimed at correcting improper behavior or when someone is being lazy. It's typically more associated with parents scolding their children or disciplinary action. I have also left out the colorful adjectives/verbs that would pepper that phrase.

I.E.

"Jimmy is sitting perfectly quiet here and not screaming, can you please do the same?".

The more polite fashion would be to ask someone "Can you do something similar to what was done here?"

Interesting though how SCN has managed to remove that aspect from the phrase.

Take care,

Stephen

[Former Member]

Has anyone ever tried any combination of these on their wife or girlfriend?

[Former Member]

>Has anyone ever tried any combination of these on their wife or girlfriend?

For the same wife or girlfriend ? That would be dangerous : WAF would not be very good....

PS : WAF : Woman Acceptance Factor

[stephenjohannes]

Julius & Olivier,

Actually here in the midwestern US, if you wife or girlfriend tells you "do the same" it usually means you are in deep trouble.

Take care,

Stephen

[Former Member]

>

> Normally the phrase is "Can you please do the same?"  and is associated with a negative connotation aimed at correcting improper behavior or when someone is being lazy.  It's typically more associated with parents scolding their children or disciplinary action.  I have also left out the colorful adjectives/verbs that would pepper that phrase. 

Stephen,

I dont quite think that's true. The etymology that is.

IMO the "the same" is a (professional) mailing jargon. Its used to avoid repetition/redundancy of a request.

Case in point:

Sir, I request you to complete the supply of promised material by the end of this month. Please note that a penalty would be imposed on you if you do not do the same by the said date.

Now lets see how the sentence would sound like if you avoid "the same".

Sir, I request you to complete the supply of promised material by the end of this month. Please note that a penalty would be imposed on you if you do not supply the material by the end of this month.

As you can see there's a repetition of " by the end of this month". Repeating the same group of words again and again can sound annoying right? Something like joining four or five sentences with an "and". Hence, its conveniently replaced with "the same".

Im saying this, because I've heard the same over and over again here in India (note that its mostly the Indians who use this), and almost on all occasions dealing with official mails.

pk

[Former Member]

I have encountered a lot of 'sames' being in India. I think it's a purely Indian style of language among other variations like prepone (advance), prepend (prefix), momento, etc. Someone told me it was a remnant of the Raj days but I doubt it now.

I used it quite a bit but have stopped using it of late.

Pushpraj

[Former Member]

> Someone told me it was a remnant of the Raj days but I doubt it now.

Could be, but I guess the tone might have been different.

"Revert back and do the same" = "Run over him with the elephant again, he is still moving"?

> momento

I think this is a remnant of the first Italian folks who migrated to India in the hope of Pizza standing a chance against a Samussa on the market.

Cheers,

Julius

[Former Member]

I think the key phrase here is 'official mails'. The example you give;

Sir, I request you to complete the supply of promised material by the end of this month. Please note that a penalty would be imposed on you if you do not do the same by the said date.

Could easiliy be express as;

Sir, I request you to complete the supply of promised material by the end of this month. Please note that a penalty would be imposed on you if you have not done this by then.

This avoids repitition, but to some would sound less 'official'. It is still perfectly good (English) English.

Regards,

Nick

[Former Member]

>

> 
> "Revert back and do the same" = "Run over him with the elephant again, he is still moving"?
> 

ROFL ... that 'picture' made my day. actually i had to laugh so loud that i am getting strange stares from my colleagues!

[Former Member]

Letter writing in India especially in government circles is whole world within itself. The kind of English used in the "official" letters by the Indian Government employees can put the (Queen's) English to shame. And Im not being sarcastic here. Its takes great skill to master letter writing in these circles. I know this because my Dad and my wife works for the Government of India.

And Ive read some of their letters. Man, I gotta tell you... that's some heavy stuff!

Julius ROTFL. Btw where's your spell checker? Samussa? LOL. Its Samosa ~get it rite, get it rite.

pk

[matt]

Not confined to Indian government. Consider these from the classic Yes Minister TV program. Though they are fictional, I've worked in government and have heard and read much that is very very similar from the civil servants.

If there had been investigations, which there haven't, or not necessarily, or I'm not at to say whether there have, there would have been a project team which, had it existed, on which I cannot comment, would now have been disbanded, if it had existed, and the members returned to their original departments, if indeed there had been any such members.

Well, it's clear that the committee has agreed that your new policy is a really excellent plan but in view of some of the doubts being expressed, may I propose that I recall that after careful consideration, the considered view of the committee was that while they considered that the proposal met with broad approval in principle, that some of the principles were sufficiently fundamental in principle and some of the considerations so complex and finely balanced in practice, that, in principle, it was proposed that the sensible and prudent practice would be to submit the proposal for more detailed consideration, laying stress on the essential continuity of the new proposal with existing principles, and the principle of the principle arguments which the proposal proposes and propounds for their approval, in principle.

It is characteristic of all committee discussions and decisions that every member has a vivid recollection of them, and that every member's recollection of them differs violently from every other member's recollection; consequently we accept the convention that the official decisions are those and only those which have been officially recorded in the minutes by the officials; from which it emerges with elegant inevitability, that any decision which has been officially reached would have been officially recorded in the minutes by the officials, and any decisions which is not recorded in the minutes by the officials has not been officially reached, even if one or more members believe they can recollect it; so in this particular case, if the decision would have been officially reached, it would have been recorded in the minutes by the officials and it isn't so it wasn't

[stephenjohannes]

pk and others,

You may be correct for your regional dialect of English, but you folks fail to recognize/remember that I my dialect is midwestern American English. I'm not trying to be the grammar police, but rather just point out how even in a language such as "English", there are differences based on where you are located.

I assure you that if you came over here in midwestern United States and used "revert" in that fashion or "the same" so frequently, people would not understand you. That being said I'm sure other places around the globe us the words in a fashion that would sound strange to someone here.

I hope y'all understand that I don't have a beef with any one of you, and just offering my two cents.

Take care,

Stephen

[Former Member]

Stephen,

I know you were not being the grammar police here, nor are any others. We all are just pitching our tents in our respective regions

I assure you that if you came over here in midwestern United States and used "revert" in that fashion or "the same" so frequently, people would not understand you. That being said I'm sure other places around the globe us the words in a fashion that would sound strange to someone here.

Yes Ive lived in the US (down south) for three years and I know the subtle differences in the language. For example if I told somebody that my week has been hectic, I get blank looks. Instead I should be saying that my week has been busy.

pk

[stephenjohannes]

pk,

Wow I might just need a translator to convert "southern" to "midwestern" lol. After traveling across the US for business, it always amazes me the subtle and not so subtle differences between areas.

You probably already realize this, but "Midwestern English" is the accent/dialect used as the training standard for broadcast journalism across the lower 48. Keep in mind however this has been relaxed, so you will occassionally hear a local accent on the local news, but that is normally the exception to the rule.

The funny part is the word hectic would have been perfectly understandable in my neck of the woods.

Take care,

Stephen