Please, Explain the same.

[Former Member]

Hello,

SDN Forums is the only place I know where 3 people out of 4 are always speaking about "the same".

"Do the needful for the same", "Help for the same", etc...

I have never heard people talking about "the same" in each sentence when traveling in Great Britain or the USA.

Could any one explain what this really mean ?

Is this an expression or a literal translation from an other language ?

Greetings,

Curious Olivier

[markus_doehr2]

I found a few more explanations for "the same" - more disambiguation needed:

- What you say after someone insults you. It is the last resort if you have been insulted with a "your face" comment. It confuses the big mean bully and they will go home crying to mommy.

- An omnipresent meaning originated from brotherhood.

- Term used when going out in public without showering. Also includes wearing the same clothes as the day before.

Source: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=same

Markus

[jurjen_heeck]

I think it's either a transport request or a task:

[former_member184657]

Please read [this|http://www.cnngo.com/mumbai/life/10-indianisms-652344] and do the needful by reverting back.... on the same

pk

[Former Member]

There are some strong reactions in the comments !

[Former Member]

more insight on the "samë"

and dont miss reading this

[Former Member]

This was fetched from sapfans:

PLZ SEND ME MATARIEL ASAP for the same. I have interviaw tomaraw.

do you have a resume? do u need help praparing? have u a list of interviaw questions?

Please give me points if useful.

plz do the needful.

Guru's Plz provide the suggestions plz.

wainting for replay for the same.

Hi, I hve teh same problem. Can u send plz?

Can I put all my production system in a CR and transport to a new one instead of upgrading?

[rb]

Here is a good one:

"Hello SDNites,

Can someone give me a simple example for widening cast. I am not able to implement the same. Also please tell me the scenarion where the same will be used.

Regards,

Abhi"

from ht[|]

hehe

[Former Member]

It's a valid but archaic (and maybe legalese) usage, meaning it or the latter. e.g. Go to the stable and fetch me a horse, and a saddle for the same. The saddle is for the horse, not the stable,

Also http://www.geocities.com/seekingthephoenix/m/wmmccune.htm

[matt]

The thread must be over now.

[Former Member]

>

> The thread must be over now.

Because the Fat Bloke has sung??

Rob

[Former Member]

>The thread must be over now.

The same thread ?

[Former Member]

I think I can improve Matt's observation further and

also provide some clarity to his thoughts.....

>The thread must be over now, please close the same

[former_member184657]

Taking the same a step forward:

In case the thread gets deleted (the chances being high) FYI:

hi.
Sorry i was not knowing the same and will not repeat the same again.
thank you
Mahesh

pk

[Former Member]

Hi Oliver

SAP globalsupport' centre' reply to an OSS message...

> I could not login to your system as connection for *** system was closed

> But I have released the note ******** for yourself. Now you can use the

> same via SNOTE. But please test the same in your test system as I havent seen

> the issue myself so please do the testing in test system first.

No prizes for guessing the location of the same!

Edited by: Ravi Dixit on Oct 12, 2009 10:58 AM

[Former Member]

The Epidemic is spreading on OSS for the same...

[Former Member]

Hi,

Thanks to all for explaining the same and for the links to the same hilarious threads.

So it seems that the new game in town is to use the same world as much as possible.

Therefore I will try now to do the same as everyone.

same Olivier as before but educated now !

[Former Member]

Thanks for the same

[ThomasZloch]

There is also some creativity in politely circumventing forbidden phrases.

"anticipating your quick positive help" -> "ur-gent"

"Kindly suggest with a solution as an earliest" -> "ur-gent"

"any pointers will be highly appreciated" -> "poings will be rewarded"

[stephenjohannes]

I'm also trying to figure out where "the same" is used in normal conversations here in the midwest and finally figured it out.

Normally the phrase is "Can you please do the same?" and is associated with a negative connotation aimed at correcting improper behavior or when someone is being lazy. It's typically more associated with parents scolding their children or disciplinary action. I have also left out the colorful adjectives/verbs that would pepper that phrase.

I.E.

"Jimmy is sitting perfectly quiet here and not screaming, can you please do the same?".

The more polite fashion would be to ask someone "Can you do something similar to what was done here?"

Interesting though how SCN has managed to remove that aspect from the phrase.

Take care,

Stephen

[Former Member]

Has anyone ever tried any combination of these on their wife or girlfriend?

[Former Member]

>Has anyone ever tried any combination of these on their wife or girlfriend?

For the same wife or girlfriend ? That would be dangerous : WAF would not be very good....

PS : WAF : Woman Acceptance Factor

[stephenjohannes]

Julius & Olivier,

Actually here in the midwestern US, if you wife or girlfriend tells you "do the same" it usually means you are in deep trouble.

Take care,

Stephen

[former_member184657]

>

> Normally the phrase is "Can you please do the same?"  and is associated with a negative connotation aimed at correcting improper behavior or when someone is being lazy.  It's typically more associated with parents scolding their children or disciplinary action.  I have also left out the colorful adjectives/verbs that would pepper that phrase. 

Stephen,

I dont quite think that's true. The etymology that is.

IMO the "the same" is a (professional) mailing jargon. Its used to avoid repetition/redundancy of a request.

Case in point:

Sir, I request you to complete the supply of promised material by the end of this month. Please note that a penalty would be imposed on you if you do not do the same by the said date.

Now lets see how the sentence would sound like if you avoid "the same".

Sir, I request you to complete the supply of promised material by the end of this month. Please note that a penalty would be imposed on you if you do not supply the material by the end of this month.

As you can see there's a repetition of " by the end of this month". Repeating the same group of words again and again can sound annoying right? Something like joining four or five sentences with an "and". Hence, its conveniently replaced with "the same".

Im saying this, because I've heard the same over and over again here in India (note that its mostly the Indians who use this), and almost on all occasions dealing with official mails.

pk

[Former Member]

I have encountered a lot of 'sames' being in India. I think it's a purely Indian style of language among other variations like prepone (advance), prepend (prefix), momento, etc. Someone told me it was a remnant of the Raj days but I doubt it now.

I used it quite a bit but have stopped using it of late.

Pushpraj

[Former Member]

> Someone told me it was a remnant of the Raj days but I doubt it now.

Could be, but I guess the tone might have been different.

"Revert back and do the same" = "Run over him with the elephant again, he is still moving"?

> momento

I think this is a remnant of the first Italian folks who migrated to India in the hope of Pizza standing a chance against a Samussa on the market.

Cheers,

Julius

[Former Member]

I think the key phrase here is 'official mails'. The example you give;

Sir, I request you to complete the supply of promised material by the end of this month. Please note that a penalty would be imposed on you if you do not do the same by the said date.

Could easiliy be express as;

Sir, I request you to complete the supply of promised material by the end of this month. Please note that a penalty would be imposed on you if you have not done this by then.

This avoids repitition, but to some would sound less 'official'. It is still perfectly good (English) English.

Regards,

Nick

[Former Member]

>

> 
> "Revert back and do the same" = "Run over him with the elephant again, he is still moving"?
> 

ROFL ... that 'picture' made my day. actually i had to laugh so loud that i am getting strange stares from my colleagues!

[former_member184657]

Letter writing in India especially in government circles is whole world within itself. The kind of English used in the "official" letters by the Indian Government employees can put the (Queen's) English to shame. And Im not being sarcastic here. Its takes great skill to master letter writing in these circles. I know this because my Dad and my wife works for the Government of India.

And Ive read some of their letters. Man, I gotta tell you... that's some heavy stuff!

Julius ROTFL. Btw where's your spell checker? Samussa? LOL. Its Samosa ~get it rite, get it rite.

pk

[matt]

Not confined to Indian government. Consider these from the classic Yes Minister TV program. Though they are fictional, I've worked in government and have heard and read much that is very very similar from the civil servants.

If there had been investigations, which there haven't, or not necessarily, or I'm not at to say whether there have, there would have been a project team which, had it existed, on which I cannot comment, would now have been disbanded, if it had existed, and the members returned to their original departments, if indeed there had been any such members.

Well, it's clear that the committee has agreed that your new policy is a really excellent plan but in view of some of the doubts being expressed, may I propose that I recall that after careful consideration, the considered view of the committee was that while they considered that the proposal met with broad approval in principle, that some of the principles were sufficiently fundamental in principle and some of the considerations so complex and finely balanced in practice, that, in principle, it was proposed that the sensible and prudent practice would be to submit the proposal for more detailed consideration, laying stress on the essential continuity of the new proposal with existing principles, and the principle of the principle arguments which the proposal proposes and propounds for their approval, in principle.

It is characteristic of all committee discussions and decisions that every member has a vivid recollection of them, and that every member's recollection of them differs violently from every other member's recollection; consequently we accept the convention that the official decisions are those and only those which have been officially recorded in the minutes by the officials; from which it emerges with elegant inevitability, that any decision which has been officially reached would have been officially recorded in the minutes by the officials, and any decisions which is not recorded in the minutes by the officials has not been officially reached, even if one or more members believe they can recollect it; so in this particular case, if the decision would have been officially reached, it would have been recorded in the minutes by the officials and it isn't so it wasn't

[stephenjohannes]

pk and others,

You may be correct for your regional dialect of English, but you folks fail to recognize/remember that I my dialect is midwestern American English. I'm not trying to be the grammar police, but rather just point out how even in a language such as "English", there are differences based on where you are located.

I assure you that if you came over here in midwestern United States and used "revert" in that fashion or "the same" so frequently, people would not understand you. That being said I'm sure other places around the globe us the words in a fashion that would sound strange to someone here.

I hope y'all understand that I don't have a beef with any one of you, and just offering my two cents.

Take care,

Stephen

[former_member184657]

Stephen,

I know you were not being the grammar police here, nor are any others. We all are just pitching our tents in our respective regions

I assure you that if you came over here in midwestern United States and used "revert" in that fashion or "the same" so frequently, people would not understand you. That being said I'm sure other places around the globe us the words in a fashion that would sound strange to someone here.

Yes Ive lived in the US (down south) for three years and I know the subtle differences in the language. For example if I told somebody that my week has been hectic, I get blank looks. Instead I should be saying that my week has been busy.

pk

[stephenjohannes]

pk,

Wow I might just need a translator to convert "southern" to "midwestern" lol. After traveling across the US for business, it always amazes me the subtle and not so subtle differences between areas.

You probably already realize this, but "Midwestern English" is the accent/dialect used as the training standard for broadcast journalism across the lower 48. Keep in mind however this has been relaxed, so you will occassionally hear a local accent on the local news, but that is normally the exception to the rule.

The funny part is the word hectic would have been perfectly understandable in my neck of the woods.

Take care,

Stephen

[former_member184657]

A new trend among the forum members (read OP) is to end a question with:

Looking forward to a positive reply/input

I dont understand the OP's motive here. Is he/she trying to say, that he/she doesnt want a negative (wrong) answer to the question. Or does it just mean =>

hey I did not search the forums, nor put any effort in solving the problem, nor read SAP Help. So just give me the step-by-step solution without asking me to search for the same or try on my own.

pk

PS: Here's an example for the same:

Edited by: kishan P on Sep 24, 2009 12:55 PM

[ChrisSolomon]

Careful.....I asked the "revert back" question a long long time ago....

and almost had my head bitten off for it. haha (and I STILL think I am right! Hey, I'm American...I must be right! hahaha)

[jurjen_heeck]

Et tu, Julius? No link to the [SCN Urban Dictionary?|http://wiki.sdn.sap.com/wiki/display/HOME/SCN%20Urban%20Dictionary]? How could you miss such an opportunity?

Please check there for the same.

[gaurav_kothari]

LOL. That indeed is a great collection. It explains "the same" very well

Regards,

Gaurav

[Jelena_Perfiljeva]

>

> Careful.....I asked the "revert back" question a long long time ago....

Thanks for the link, Chris.

I did some more search "on the internets" and found that indeed the 'back' part in 'revert back' is redundant, according to English scholars. In fact, there is a shorter and less ambiguous word 'reply', not sure why we don't use more of it.

(Grammar Police mode off)

[stephenjohannes]

Jelena,

The weird part is that the word "revert" would confuse a midwestern english speaker in the context that it is being used. We normally would say "reply" instead. Revert is normally never associated with any form of communication. You normally do not hear someone saying "Can you send a revert to the person?", instead you will hear "Can you send the person a reply"?

Best case in point is Lotus Notes shows "reply" or "reply to all", not "revert" or "revert to all".

Take care,

Stephen

[matt]

A genuine email exchange with a supplier and a frustrated colleague of mine...

Dear Mr Z,

The xzy process of pqr needs to be configured to handle input and process change from fgh. Please revert back the charge for the same, and estimated timelines for the same. Please do the needful

To which he replied, in line:

Please revert back the charge for the same

it's the same

and estimated timelines for the same.

they're the same

Please do the needful

the same to you

[Former Member]

>Please revert back the charge for the same

>it's the same

>and estimated timelines for the same.

>they're the same

>Please do the needful

>the same to you

ROTFL. I am laughing from the same !

[Jelena_Perfiljeva]

I did a quick search and it looks like in most cases "help for the same" is just a rather lazy way to repeat the question or bump the question up or, possibly, as pointed out above, one of the point-hunting techniques.

Now if anyone could explain "revert back"... Isn't it like turning 360 degrees?

[Former Member]

Now if anyone could explain "revert back"... Isn't it like turning 360 degrees?

Nope, I think it is 180° => so "not the same".

This makes sense because the original link was asking a negative question to exclude his error. (disregard the error for a moment...)

The second one was asking a lazy open-ended step-by-step question. In these cases, even the magic "same" cannot help you. You need a link-farm...

Cheers,

Julius

[Former Member]

You win some, you loose some...

Okay, back to normal...

[Former Member]

I think it is an holistic hypothesis which places the rest of the post into a context.

I am sure there are plenty of corollaries, so I tried the most obvious one thanks to Amir having noticed it:

=>

Let see...

Julius

[Former Member]

For same's sake! Take a look at this thread now which I linked above!

In the Netweaver and ABAP forums you have to work really hard most of the time to earn a few ponits.

In the PI forums, you only need to use "the same" a few times and the ponits connect to you like an adapter engine...

I even checked on this to see whether some moderator was pulling my leg, but it was not the same. It was the OP.

So, "the same" is the general field theory of the ponits system...

Try it!

LoL,

Julius

[Former Member]

Lolz, hahahahahaha

I was about the post link for the "same" thread in this one but the "same" was done by Julius before i can do the "same"

Aamir

[Former Member]

Thanks to Julius for letting the community know one of the easier ways of earning points. It is getting harder to earn points in ABAP forum these days. Though i don't know even the 'A B C D' of Process Integration let me try my luck with 'THE SAME' technique to get a few points

Vikranth

[Former Member]

Yes, it's almost unbelievable.

I think folks feel comforted by it. This is not something which I am used to here on SDN...

I give SAP Security training courses and this is more than just technical know-how. You need to keep the folks interested (a real challenge sometimes..) and give them re-assurance that they are understanding it.

You cannot always tell them complicated stuff which they don't know, because you loose them (try that on day 1 of a 5 day course).

But why someone would ask this question is beyond me to be honest...

Anyway, I am going back to that thread for more of the same.

Hopefully the OP will respond at some stage...

Same as always,

Julius

[Former Member]

> Though i don't know even the 'A B C D' of Process Integration let me try my luck with 'THE SAME' technique to get a few points

Little tip: Search for the string "what is the difference between" in the subject title...

Cheers,

Julius