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MASTER DB - dump and load (missing configurations)

tobias_ptz
Participant
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Hello,

We've switched one landscape from Oracle to Sybase and at the moment I set up some standby databases for out PRD systems.

Some are running, but with one PRD system I have a strange problem:

A system without problems:

1. dump master, saptools, sybmgmtdb and SID on PRD

2. load master, saptools, sybmgmtdb and SID on SDB

3. load tran on SDB

But on one system, after I load the master db, if I check the configs with "sp_config_dump", I see that all configs are missing.

On all other systems I see them on SDB side, but not at this system.

I hope you understand my problem.

Is there any parameter or setting which told the system to delete the configs during the dump or load?

Thank you!

Best regards,

Tobias Pätz

tobias_ptz
Participant
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Hi Mark,

Well if it isn't needed to restore the master db for the standby db, but the dump/reload procedure is just the same just on another host. Like I want to set up a sandbox system.

My problem is now, why is on that database the master dump is missing content after the load.

ps. I installed the standby side exactly like the prod. side. Just IP and Hostname is different. So I guess there should no problem to load also the master db, or? The positive thing is, I don't have to add the configuration settings again.

Thank you!

Regards,

Tobias

Mark_A_Parsons
Contributor
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Why is content missing after loading a master database into a different dataserver? *shrug*

What content is missing and how do you know it's missing (ie, does a stored proc not return what you expect? have you verified the records do not exist in a particular system table in the master database?)?

After loading the master database the dataserver should have shutdown, right? What happened when you started the dataserver up?  Any (error) messages in the errorlog that could indicate a problem with the contents of the master database tables?

Are you sure your master database dump file was created after the 'missing content' was added to the source dataserver?

Have you verified the target system is *IDENTICAL* to the primary system?  You got all the same devices (same name/location/size/ownership/permissions) on both hosts? You got all the same databases (same names/dbids/sysusages-segment-fragments) on both dataservers? You have the same amount of shared memory available on both machines? You copied over the *cfg file from the source to the target host? And the list goes on and on and on ... point being that there are a *LOT* of (potential) issues you have to be aware of before you attempt loading a master database dump into a different dataserver.

Does the SAP note you're following (for setting up your standby system) state that you're supposed to dump-n-load the master database? If so then there must be a slew of prerequisites that you need to meet before attempting a load of a master database ... so I'd suggest going back and making sure you successfully met all prerequisites.

tobias_ptz
Participant
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Hi Mark,

I'm new to Sybase ASE, so I can just check the daily used settings.

Before I set up a productive standby system I checked everything out on a sandbox.

This "problem" I have just with one PRD system ..

What is missing:

- dump configurations (sp_config_dump)

What I expect:

- that everything is saved in the dump and if I load this dump on another system, everything is 1:1 in the the other system

How I can find out:

- in which table sybase is writing the entries if I use stored procedures?

Right, after starting in single user mode and loading the dump, sybase stops automatically. There was no error in the error log after starting the service.

We dump daily the

- master

- saptools

- sybmgmtdb

- SID

So if I use this from today or tomorrow this from tonight, the configurations should be there.

I restarted also the PRD and the SDB db, but still the same ..

I installed the SAP system identically to the PRD system, same devices, same size, same location and with the same SIDuser, also the same permissions. I do not copy the whole sybase folder, just the SID.cfg. Both machines have the same hardware sizing.

There is no sap note which is for setting up a standby database, just one to restore sybase and one how to do set up a database to get a working restore.

If it was my first standby, I think I've done something wrong, but I installed them like the other ones and these ones are still working. That's what drives me crazy

I mean, it is not the dump configuration itself, I can create the dump configs in a minute, my thoughts going to, what if something else is missing to .. maybe because not everything is loaded during the load procedure .. could it happen to the SID database to? I hope you understand my thoughts a bit.

Thank you for your help!!!

Best regards,

Tobias

Mark_A_Parsons
Contributor
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First off ... stop trying to load the master database into a different dataserver, especially since you're new to ASE. There are way too many non-standard, under-the-covers issues that need to be understood to perform such an operation.

As for dumping-n-loading the other databases (sybmgmtdb, saptools, SID) between dataservers ... while this is technically doable there are potential issues that you would need to watch out for including (but not limited to) mismatched database/login/role/server ids, eg, cross-database references (sysreferences), mismatched logins/users/roles (sysusers, sysalternates, sysroles), proxy/remote-server references (sysreferences), etc.

Personally I'd skip the dump-n-load of sybmgmtdb and just run your job scheduler commands directly against the target dataserver.

As for the saptools and SID databases ... while I've worked with ASE for 20+ years I have not worked with any of the SAP applications or their associated databases, so fwiw ... I'd have to rely on SAP notes as to the best way to copy/migrate a SAP database between dataservers. I know you're not the first person to attempt copying a SID database between dataservers ... I just don't know what the official/supported method would be ... ?

tobias_ptz
Participant
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Hello Mark,

Thank you for your help!

Ok let's say, in fact of setting up a standby system there is no need to load the master database, because every installation has it's own relevance to this database and the sybmgmtdb just holds the internal database jobs, which is easy to schedule in the standby system manually.

For the saptools database I just need to read some more sap notes or on the internet.

But, if I want to restore my PRD database from my daily backup, I have to restore the filesystem, the master db and of course the other databases. For that point, the dump configurations should be loaded from the dump too, or not?

The question is, how do I check if my backups contain all settings and information after I load them to a sandbox to test if everything is really loaded. Nothing else I am doing right now, just in fact that I don't bring the SID database online after the load. (And yes, in future, I'll take your advices seriously!)

What would you do, if you backup your master everyday, the db crashes and you have to restore your whole database and after you finished your work, you find out something is missing, even you get no error message during or after the load of the backup.

Thank you and best regards,

Tobias

Accepted Solutions (1)

Accepted Solutions (1)

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I understand that you created DUMP configurations in one system which you miss in the target system which you created by LOADING a DUMP of master and all the other databases.

A dump configuration is stored int he ASE cfg file - you might want to check the details of that file.
So  you should get the dump config once you copied over the ASE cfg file (or edited the target cfg file accordingly)  and rebooted ASE.

Wrt to LOADING the master dump :
I think it is perfectly valid and probably easiest approach to recreate an ASE server (inlcuding all databases) on a separate host by loading master and all the user databases - particulalry if you want to create a standby ASE server which you keep in sync by perpetually load transactions logs dumps to the <DBSID> database as these get created on the primary side.
Note that this will require paths to ASE devices to be exactly the same as on the primary dbhost . But that is probably what you want in such a case anyway.

HTH

Tilman Model-Bosch

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P.S:
If you just need a system copy of a PRD database - that contains a snapshot of the PRD database but where you dont want or dont need to apply transaction log dumps - then SAPINST provides an option to creat a system copy using a DATABASE DUMP of the original system. In that case SAPINST creates a new SAP system (probably with a different SID) and asks you to provide a location wher it finds the database dump of DBSID database . It will LOAD that dump and apply some necessary post-migration tasks in the SAP system once it is brought online.

tobias_ptz
Participant
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Hi Tilman,

Damn! .. I must missed copying the *.cfg file to the SDB ..

Thanks for the hint! I don't understand why it is so hard to find out some about the basics of sybase.

- So your point is to restore all databases to the standby host?

My first step was to use SUM on the standby host to install the SAP system identically to the PRD host with the mode you mentioned. Load database from backup during SAPInst.

After that I copy the *.cfg (if I'm not missing this part ), restart ASE, SAP kernel update and so on, startup SAP and take a look at every logfile to verify there is no error.

The next step was to load all databases, disable on the SYBMGMTDB all backup jobs and run a script which loads all transaction logs with a delay of 8h.

Anything you would do in a different way?

Best regards and a big THANK YOU!,

Tobias

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Dear Tobias,

I assume your first steps was to use SWPM (aka SAPINST) to install SAP system on the standby host (Not SUM ) .

Basically , the steps you performed look right to me - I think you should have a good standby database now.

What might be an issue is the fact that the first time you bring the standby system online you might see issues due to the fact that the standby systems runs on a different host - there might be some edges in transport management and so on in case you have to switch.
You might want to review SAP note 1650511 - section on the log file shipping solution (which is basically what you do)

With kind regards
Tilman Model-Bosch

tobias_ptz
Participant
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Hello Tilman,

Oh, you're right. I mixed up both tools.

We also sync the SAP profiles and some other files like reginfo.dat and so on.

So before we start the SAP system on the standby system we have to verify some profile settings, especially the trans path.

The guide you named lies right in front of me, it's a good guide for an overview of the topic standby databases.

Thank you Tilman and Mark for your help!

Best regards,

Tobias

Answers (1)

Answers (1)

Former Member
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Hu Tobias,

If you reallly need to restore SDB only, there is no need to load the system databases.

Hans

tobias_ptz
Participant
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Hi Hans,

At the moment I'm at the step to set up a whole database, therefore I have to load all databases.

But after loading the master, found out that the configs are missing. So if the configs are missing, what else maybe is missing ..

Regards,

Tobias