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Suggestions for forum improvements

Former Member
0 Kudos

Wishlist (in sequence of appearence):

<ol>

<li> [Distinction between answeredsolved closedunsolved functionality|]

<li> [Enhance SCN search|]

<li> [Friends-And-Foes functionality|;

<li> [Metrics for quality measure|]

<li> [and information on the direction of the forums|]

<li> [FAQ collection forum|]

<li> [An open, overall SDN suggestions site|]

<li> [More abuse categories|]

<li> [Personal status of the person posting|]

<li> [Improvement of formatting issues|]

<li> [Stricter moderation|]

<ul style="list-style:circle!important;">

<li> [Penalising whoever answers basic questions|]

<li> [Cutting points/guestifying responders|]

</ul>

<li> [Visibility of number of people following a thread|]

<li> [Invention of u2018honour badgesu2019|]

<li> [Substitution of the points-system by:|;

<ul style="list-style:circle!important;">

<li>[Introduction of a secondary point-system|http://forums.sdn.sap.com/post!]

<li>[Designing a u2018recognition and votingu2019 system|http://forums.sdn.sap.com/post!]

<li>[Considering the honeypot system|http://forums.sdn.sap.com/post!/community [original link is broken] 9111575#9111575]

<li>[Inventing an event driven honouring|http://forums.sdn.sap.com/post!/community [original link is broken]9135164#9135164]

</ul>

<li>[Bring transparency to the moderator-elevation and maintenance process|;

</ol>

Accepted Solutions (0)

Answers (33)

Answers (33)

bruce_hartley
Active Participant
0 Kudos

I recently had to look through SDN to find a solution for how to convert a flat XML file into an ABAP structure and internal table.

Many of the the solutions weren't really solutions - it was mostly "use this" - without any example whatsoever. If you want to see the point of this, do a search on SMUM_PARSE_XML and see how many things refernce it - and how few ( if any ) actually have sample code in there.

Before you all get all wound up and say "oh, do a CALL TRANSFORM" - keep in mind that I had 17+ files to convert and I didn't want to have to maintain 17 ST conversions - plus I wanted something generic. I Idgress, but I wanted to make the point that I actually did consider that as a solution.

So then I found this one special post where the person actually provided a small clear answer to how to call another related function that made all the difference in the world - my code now works.

So what I'm asking for is that I be allowed to allocate up to 100 points a year for "useful" posts. These points would NOT count towards the solution points due to the fact that the system would otherwise be misused.

Over time, the "good posts" that actually help would pile up points and you could rank them by "usability points". Yes it might stil be mis-used by people who want bragging rights, but in my mind - if you're doing that - you don't belong here. I'm upset enough about the people who post the same simple question for their buddies to answer so they get points - I hope that they have stopped giving out free passes to Tech-Ed because as Drew Carey once said - "The points don't matter".

Anyways, I'd like to award 30 of my points to the following post because I bet someone else is going to need it - and a further hint - the reply on 8/28/2007 by Lucy Ding is the magic answer - here's the link about how to use SDIXML_DOM_TO_DATA

So thank you Lucy for taking the time to provide a simple, clear, concise, and CORRECT answer.

Former Member
0 Kudos

Hi Bruce

The reason you'll find people are hesitant to provide this level of detail is because some people use this forum as a replacement for training. I regularly see people from consulting companies with requesting config guides on modules. Its become clear that SDN has now become a training source for consultants sold on projects who have no experience in the relevant area and its the customers that suffer, not the consultants. I am normally happy to help with questions where its clear the consultant in question has an understanding of the module and has hit a wall where there are some tricks you need to know to get past, but I refuse to help a consultant at a site where he has clearly been sold in to do something he's not qualified to do. It results in second rate solutions for the customer and SAP gets a bad name, not the consultant.

This is obviously different with coding but I have also seen posts from ABAPer's who clear don't know ABAP trying to provide support or enhancements to customers. Again, we should not be helping create an environment where consultants with no training or experience are allowed to thrive through bad practice.

regards,

Athol

Former Member
0 Kudos

Unfortunately, because of the individual focus of the SDN poopints system, you will also find that those who do provide answers all to often have even less training and experience than the person who asked the question.

This is typically made evident as linkfarms and copy&paste answers.

It would be great for the community to be able to rate whole threads and individual answers, as has been requested many times and will hopefully see implemented by year end 2011.

At least I am optimistic...

Cheers,

Julius

sukhbold_altanbat
Active Participant
0 Kudos

I have a suggestion for improving SDN forum.

As I know, currently forum member awards points by choosing the answer that he/she thinks it is correct. Sometimes there can be a case that it is difficult to choose which one is the right answer. What I am going to suggest is that there should be an option to put the question in voting. Voting allows other members to choose which answer is deserved get points.

Cheers

Former Member
0 Kudos

Hello,

I would like to put forth a request to create a new section for forum for SCM Extended Warehouse Management and i am not sure if this is the right place to request as i did not find any other way to contact the moderator.

Currently there are other requests from LE,MM modules of SAP that get bundled into the discussions. As the SCM EWM module picks up, we will see a significant increase in the discussions hence the request for a separate section/category.

Best Regards,

Syed Ismail

former_member46
Advisor
Advisor
0 Kudos

Syed requests for new forums should be opened either in a new thread here or via [SCN idea place|https://ideas.sap.com/community/community_and_services].

Then if there is enough community agreement (by comments and/or voting) the request will be reviewed.

At that time 2 people will need to offer to be that forum's moderators.

Regards, Gali

Former Member
0 Kudos

Great! Nice post!

Even i can't say "how to end a question that is not answered." However, i'll just wish that your question on "How to end a question that is not answered?" be answered.

<advert_removed_by_moderator>

Edited by: Julius Bussche on Jan 25, 2011 10:07 PM

Former Member
0 Kudos

@ Tobias, Julius : Aah Yes, the infamous "Done" or "Solved".... really defeats the purpose of having a forum doesn't it. I am afraid that is something that will happen in most forums to some extent. I think the only way this could be solved is......... tighter moderation perhaps..... (Sorry Mods..... You already have a lot to do and are doing a very good job i might add)

@ mho : Nice suggestions, A mention in the rules of engagement would be nice, now that users have an option to mark the thread as "not answered", they really needn't go for "done" or worse "asdsf".

Cheers,

Mz

Former Member
0 Kudos

Hi Julius, Good day.......

hmmmm actually, the feature which I liked the most was indeed the Red icon. Sometimes searching the forums can be a real pain (especially when working on uncommon technologies). It can be quite frustrating going into each thread and finding out that there is no solution for it. (Aaaargghhh!!)

I am not sure why moderation would be so difficult for this icon. Do moderators actually have to go through each thread to see if an unanswered question is actually answered. If so, all Moderators have my sympathy........

I might suggest : A new thread to discuss the level of moderation in SDN

(And the infinite loop has just begun)

Cheers,

Mz

Former Member
0 Kudos

Okay, you have a good point there.

Unfortunately "done" and "solved by self" and "asdf" are more common

Cheers,

Julius

hofmann
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

It can be quite frustrating going into each thread and finding out that there is no solution for it

Depends ... quite often there is a solution provided, but the OP isn't capable of understanding it or does want to have a complete code or step by step howto and isn't marking the thread as solved.

And as a moderator cannot know the answer to all questions ...

And we do have the 10 open question limit: people are going through some older posts and mark it as closed, giving the famous solved or done text.

br,

Tobias

Former Member
0 Kudos

giving the famous solved or done text.

This is kind of annoying especially when there is a couple of members taking the labor of a search and finding such a thread.

Example:

Should this behavior be abused, or should a remark be added in the rules of engagement?

Former Member
0 Kudos

Hi All,

Just a note of appreciation.

I haven't been posting to SDN Much nowadays. However, a few days back I did post a question.... and guess what-> I am now able to find more options for closing threads which have not been answered.

Thanks SAP for finally making this change in SDN..

Cheers,

A very happy SDNer.

Former Member
0 Kudos

I go to my questions and click on Your Questions and nothing pops up. Please advise what I"m missing.

lovinlife

Former Member
0 Kudos

You might have had a question if you had started a new thread to "report" this observation, but you didn't.

@ mazin: I find this "closed but unanswered" fiasco to be hot air and a pain in moderation. What do you like about it? The colour of the red X ?

Cheers,

Julius

marksmyth
Product and Topic Expert
Product and Topic Expert
0 Kudos

Hello

I just want to make a suggestion for forum improvements (not getting involved in Ideas place debate!).

Moderator to have option of awarding points to author of thread, if they have provided the solution to their own post.

If the author of a thread finds the solution to his/her own question and posts that solution for other forum users to view, the Moderator should have the option of awarding points for the answer.

This will encourage:

- the author to provide the solution to their own threads

- the author to close their thread (as they may get points awarded)

There are many examples where the author of a thread finds the answer to his own thread and then posts the answer to help other SCN users. Currently there is no recognition for the author of the thread for doing this.

Here is one recent example from the forum I moderate:

Regards

Mark

OttoGold
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

Link to the relevant blog:

Otto

MaheshChandra
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

Hi all,

one suggestion from my side, generally only the user who asked question is able to give the points to best reply. we can't know how he is giving 10 6 2 points. so instead of this, the Questioner have access to give only 2(few) points and the users who think the answer is good and working they can give some rating and based on rating total points will increase for that answer .

this helps in two ways.

1) if any one searches for an Problem and find a good solution then he can rate it.he fells like he also posted a thread and gave points to users with good answer.

2) the user who gave the correct answer is also benefited.

i noticed this rating system in Idea place(career center) but i am not active in idea place so not sure how the rating method is used in idea place

regards

Mahesh

Edited by: maheshchandra.lanco on Sep 21, 2010 11:55 AM( idea place line)

Former Member
0 Kudos

Interesting Blog by Marilyn Pratt in this direction,

[Ratings, Blog Contents and Some Magic Formula (the good kind)|http://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/scn/weblogs?blog=/pub/wlg/21124] [original link is broken];

Thank you Otto and Marilyn to bring this up.

OttoGold
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

Ladies and gentlemen, please comment. Pick one place where to comment, but do not stay silent! We need to measure the quality and we need you to WRITE DOWN your opinions. I am not going to publish the email conversations with some of you, please do it yourself, tell us what you think.

For those who didn´t read my blogs about the value of SCN contributions in the CV/resume: if you post your opinion, I can (and other people too) cite you and link your idea to support the position.

Thank you for the time and effort you put into this.

Best regards Otto

Former Member
0 Kudos

Hi Guys

Can we also ask that you allow for an additional option under reporting post for people who are posting random answers in the hope that they can improve their forum points. I've noticed a couple of people giving really poor advice and confusing other users because they are guessing on topics they don't understand. The result is completely unrelated answers that are really stupid.

here is an example of a user who seems to be on a mission to do this:

In this case, a post about viewers he responds back with an answers about classes and characteristics which is classification related which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

Another case where he has instructed a customer on something that he doesn't understand or know. This particular user seems particularly guilty of it and I would love to have responded with "Will you stop responding to posts you don't *##&#% understand".

I understand there are cases where people are actively trying to help, but having people throwing random responses back that are completely off topic is just confusing and creating unnecessary spam on the forums, particularly where its clear that the answers are purely in the interests of getting points.

former_member203108
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

Even, I had come across such kind of posts. I think the new badge system lures people. Everybody wants a shiny badge to be displayed next to their name. So, they write something which is irrelevant and sometimes they do get atleast 2 points for such kind of reply.

Former Member
0 Kudos

Or just remove the root cause of this problem and several others on SCN...?

No 2nd prizes for guessing what that would be

Cheers,

Julius

OttoGold
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

No 2nd prizes for guessing what that would be

Past: Julius Day -


> 1 day

Future?: Julius age -


> forever?

Cheers:)))) Otto

Former Member
0 Kudos

Or just remove the root cause of this problem and several others on SCN...?

No 2nd prizes for guessing what that would be

Cheers,

Julius

I agree.

Since SDN saw fit to attach those ugly 'you-have-made-some-points-this-year' badges to our names, I dare not even show up here anymore for fear of my colleagues/boss noticing when they pass by my desk!!! Can't afford that badge next year, honestly - have to be quiet.

So I am all in favor of removing the root cause! Go for it, Julius!

OttoGold
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

Go for it, Julius!

That would make a great song!

Former Member
0 Kudos

It should however IMO first be replaced by a solid idea for sporty measurement with less downsides.

Eg. would you prefer to be called a "module champion" by your colleages?

Cheers,

Julius

Former Member
0 Kudos

It should however IMO first be replaced by a solid idea for sporty measurement with less downsides.

Whatever for? People have been contributing on other sites without feeling the need for ... ... ... virtual motivation.

Eg. would you prefer to be called a "module champion" by your colleages?

I would prefer not to be mentioned by them to my boss along the lines: spends much time in SDN when should be working. Those badges are not helping there. You cannot even suppress their display in your personal profile! There are not many companies in this country that appreciate their working force 'hanging out' on public boards during working time. Some of them even shut down access to SDN (and not only for security reasons).

former_member203108
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

What I feel is, even though the OP has awarded points, a Moderator or somebody should justify those points and see whether really the user deserve it or not, If not, he should unassign those points.

For example, , check the second reply of this thread.

The user misunderstood the concept, even though reading F1 help document and he is advising the same to the OP. But the OP is marking it as helpful answer.

Edited by: Ahmed Rifaee on Oct 6, 2010 3:19 PM

OttoGold
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

What I feel is, even though the OP has awarded points, a Moderator or somebody should justify those points and see whether really the user deserve it or not, If not, he should unassign those points.

YES!! I support the idea. We should design and implement a workflow process to get the points approved. We cannot give points to every stranger. I vote for 5 approvers in a serie!

We should also implement a WF scenario to get notified if the OP didn´t close the thread. Every moderator should receive the notification, that there are threads which were not closed!

Cheers:))))) Otto

Former Member
0 Kudos

> What I feel is, even though the OP has awarded points, a Moderator or somebody should justify those points and see whether really the user deserve it or not, If not, he should unassign those points.

Personally I avoid this, unless there is a bias...

It is the OP's decision and if folks misuse the system then we should not hide the downsides to it by making them believe that the OP was infact gratefull and diligent - when in real life they are not.

Contrary to popular demand, there is no martial law on SDN

Cheers,

Julius

Former Member
0 Kudos

I personally don't see any reasons to have points for helpful answers. Its too easy for someone to simply give them to anyone that responds, even though it has nothing to do with the actual answer to the problem.

I agree on the approval sequence though Maybe we should even use SAP to do the approvals, it may force some of the SAP people to build more user friendly screens when they have to do 5 approvals for every SDN point award

ChrisPaine
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

G'day to the grumpy old men

Hi guys - I can't help but agree that points do impact the quality of the forum responses - but I'll play devil's advocate here - would there be as many quality responses in the forums if there was no way in which to publicly recognise those people providing the quality response. For many people I would suggest that the recognition that is provided by SCN points is a motivating factor in contributing. I like seeing my name there amongst the "Experts" in my area, although it is ,as previously debated, arguable if these are indeed experts - but my point is that it is motivational to receive recognition. I don't think this needs to be through points, but I think it does need to exist - and how else to do it, I do not know.

Perhaps rather than just slamming the current system - which we are very good at we could potentially think of better alternatives - after all the topic of this thread is "Suggestions for forum improvements".

I'd also ask that we remain thoughtful of those who reading this thread do not have as great an understanding of the English language as many of us do - so if we could be mindful that some might interpret what we see clearly as a sarcastic and humorous comment as an actual suggestion.

Gracious I'm turning into a grumpy old man myself...

Good to seem some more comment on this thread though!

Cheers.

Chris

Former Member
0 Kudos

Perhaps the solution then is to rate the quality of the responses rather than to allocate points. I'd rather see some people contributing 20% of what they are if they are quality posts rather than having the amount of posts they currently have of which only 20% are useful. I.e. rate a golf medal based on percentage of points to total posts and have a minimum number of points to obtain medal status. I.e. 100.

As an example, you have some people with 1000 posts and 300 points. Now, I don't know about you, but unless they are doing a lot of contributions to the Suggests and Comments or coffee corner section, thats a pretty low hit rate on answers, even if some people may not actually be allocating points to answers.

The other issue is the "cost" of these incorrect answers, which inevitably there are. In a lot of cases, questions asked relate to problems at customer sites. I'll see a person post a response that sends a person on a wild goose chase which is actually costing their business time. Perhaps the solution is for the moderators to do negative points for answers which have nothing to do with the question so that these people learn that by posting wrong answers, they actually negatively impact the customer and/or project costs.

As an example in the content management space, I cringe every time I see someone ask how to do an object link to a purchase order. The reason for this is because some newbie trainee consultant is always going to post the way to do it. The reason this is a problem is that SAP DMS should not be used for invoices, so in effect, all they are doing is giving the consultant/customer a work around to solve the problem in the wrong way. This may not seem like an issue if the customer is getting a solution, but the cost implications of doing is are astronomical when the company builds an entire solution on SAP DMS, including workflow and enhancements, and then has to re-migrate this solution to the correct area in a couple of years when they find out its the wrong area and they can't add OCR. In reality, this little post could cost a couple a couple of hundred thousand dollars. The roll on effect is even more damaging, because the consultant is given points for the correct answer, so the next time they post exactly the same thing. Other trainee consultants see the post as a legitimate answer and before you know it, there are 100 customers out there who have implemented the wrong solution to solve a problem and nobody knows why.

The latter problem I don't know how to solve. I'm not sure whether the solution is for the moderator to override the points, or potentially delete the post so that other customers are not misguided by the answers but it does show a major issue with this area.

This problem often stems from a lack of knowledge on the consultants side because in some cases they are self taught and therefore haven't bothered to understand the basic architecture behind the area they are implementing in SAP. If the consultant learns the correct way later, it doesn't affect him, the customer on the other hand already has a solution built in the wrong area of SAP that doesn't support growth or expansion of technologies because they aren't integrated into that area.

Edited by: Athol Hill on Oct 7, 2010 10:18 AM

Edited by: Athol Hill on Oct 7, 2010 10:19 AM

Former Member
0 Kudos

Perhaps rather than just slamming the current system - which we are very good at  we could potentially think of better alternatives - after all the topic of this thread is "Suggestions for forum improvements".

?

We have thought. Often. Which is why we made a ToC - so can easily find where which thought 'resides'.



      1. [Introduction of a secondary point-system|]
      2. [Designing a u2018recognition and votingu2019 system|]
    [Considering the honeypot system|/community 9111575#9111575]
    [Inventing an event driven honouring|/community 9135164#9135164] </ul>

    Edited by: Mylène Dorias on Oct 8, 2010 8:53 AM
    ChrisPaine
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    Hi Mylène,

    Sorry - I wasn't intending to comment on the excellent suggestions that have been made - but more on the recent flurry of activity and comments - which although expressing the general despair that we all feel about falling standards and the general dislike of the point system weren't generally adding a lot to the thread IMO - as per my response right now

    Please forgive any unintended offence - and please don't take it as any criticism of the excellent index - without which we would certainly be lost!

    Have a good weekend,

    Chris

    Former Member
    0 Kudos

    By taking look at various forums one can notice very easily some forums are really very well moderated and some are not at all.

    Don't want to point out directly any particular forum but when tried to report via abuse in these lightly moderated forums havn't seen it effective at all.

    May be some where there is statistics "How many abuse reports raised and solved of coursed some times turned down as well"

    Don't want to be offencive but I think all the forum should have same moderation level in one forum we are restricting OP's reffering to the forum rules and in others we are simply answering them for any kind of questions with any subject and tolerationg answers by copy pasting and linkfarming is a big disappointment.

    Just wanted to raise this and I am sure may of us might have noticed this already.

    Let's hope to see some positive changes in those light moderated forums

    Have a nice weekend ahead

    -Pushkar

    Edited by: Pushkar Patil on Oct 8, 2010 1:43 PM

    former_member203108
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    when tried to report via abuse in these lightly moderated forums havn't seen it effective at all.

    I think its all depends on availability of Moderator of that particular forum. Even, i have come across some situations, where immediate actions were taken for all my abuse reports but sometimes I can see the actions only after few hours or even days.

    hofmann
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    Mylène,

    the problem is not the lack of suggestions from our , but how SAP is adopting these ideas. Reminds me how facebook thinks community interaction has to occur: Release something nobody wants or needs and say: be lucky to get that.

    - Badges. Maybe I'm wrong, but are the most suggestions here not related to quality?

    - Topic Leaders: still think that top contributor is more appropriate, but: who asked for a name change?

    - New counting system: annual points will be zeroed on 01/01/2011?

    At least, they are good at taking things away: no more golf balls, iPods, (special recognition during TechED), etc.

    br,

    Tobias

    PS: you have to put an imaginary tag around my post. I tried, but the HTML features of these forum tools do not adhere to my quality standards, but nobody is willing to throw away the wiki, blog and forum software.

    OttoGold
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    but nobody is willing to throw away the wiki, blog and forum software.

    Br, Otto

    Former Member
    0 Kudos

    Please forgive any unintended offence - and please don't take it as any criticism of the excellent index - without which we would certainly be lost!

    Thanks for the elaborate flattery.

    No offense taken, Chris. Forget about the index - it was just a (failed) attempt to keep a little structure to our suggestions for improvements. We are lost anyway, I dare say, since the only feedback we had is that one wants us to repeat all we collected here singularly in the IDEA-place. As for me: Not. Gonna. Happen. Did the work once. :-P.

    Mylène,

    the problem is not the lack of suggestions from our , but how SAP is adopting these ideas.

    Which brings us back to the beginning of this thread, where harald suggested to get some feedback from SDN on the subject of quality measurement and the overall masterplan-of-life for SDN. Where is harald, btw.??? I start missing him, since I start getting the feeling we are going round in circles ...

    Br, Otto

    Had any feedback there, Otto? (We have not started to call a badge - lemonlike or other - a feedback, no?).

    Anybody care to explain to me why we get more bugs instead of less with every new version? I was gone for a while, but I seem to remember that the quote-thingy used to work

    So, how about some ideas what we are going to do now?

    Edited by: Mylène Dorias on Oct 8, 2010 4:44 PM

    OttoGold
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    Had any feedback there, Otto?

    General feedback and some actions as described in those two blogs. Do you want me to repeat evertyhing here? Ok:))

    - every part of the SCN runs on different "platform" (Portal engines does not count:)))

    - newest (technically) part of the site is idea place

    - it is possible that the "new SCN" will look like Idea place (if you would care to visit Jive pages and register for a demo, you could get a better picture) - for those who are not interested I am going to write another part of the blog, where I am going to map "our" (feels like you now think of me as a collaborant with a lemon, right? pity... was trying to be helpful and you started this topic for me...) demands with what new Jive "engine" offers. If you care, drop a line what you would like to know now or comment below the blog when it is out. I promise to link the blog here if you will not consider that a SAP marketing...

    - it is not possible to "upgrade" current parts of SCN, we have to "migrate" it. That means we have to work on the scenarios (what, when, how...) and the timetable (out of control of all the people I have ever talked to).

    - the time from when "we" start "talking" about the new engine (like Jive SBS - I am not their salesman, I only think it is highly probable we will get their latest toy here) to the moment we get it could be year, two, three. I am sure you don´t understand why I blog about it or talk about it here, since this is a) out of control b) will not be told us c) will take months, but I think it is better to talk about it and start asking (and commenting) than nothing

    - since it is very likely Jive will be the vendor of the new system (would you offer any other vendor?), I concentrate on exploring and explaining the new Jive here

    - since it is very likely ... I am sure some SAP internal evaluation process is on the go, would be just great to be able to see/read some feedback. I will ask questions about this, but don´t have any idea who is resposnible, if he/she would talk about it and if it would be approved to blog about it... again, nothing new, but I care and try to help here

    - since it will take some time to start moving this, it is very likely we will get some more minor improvements of this "old site" before we get a new one

    - even if you all can laught, a wiki page with some minor improvements appeared and is linked from the mentioned blog. Again: it is better to have this one than nothing. You can see the two names responsible for the wiki (and probably about the improvements as well, at least for the decision making, or decisioners helping...) - example: longer posts allowed

    - the IT guys reposnsible for SCN are responsible for variety of other IT things (so SCN is few percents of their job) and it seems they don´t come here to talk (obviously) and they hardly care about us - the users. Since they are no users of this site, they have no idea what does it take to "live" here. We and they don´t share the user experience.

    Any questions? Any special interests?

    Br, Otto

    hofmann
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    repeat all we collected here singularly in the IDEA-place. As for me: Not. Gonna. Happen. Did the work once

    100% agreed. If I only could give you 1.000 pts for that statement.

    SSO only for S-Users and not for P-User ID. Logged on to SCN, switched to IDEA-place -> not logged on. Let me take the your frase to the next level:

    Not! Gonna! Happen! Ever!

    br,

    Tobias

    Kuhan_Milroy
    Active Participant
    0 Kudos

    Oddly enough, I had not seen the request for Single Sign On to Idea Place from SCN, so it has been added.

    Status: Coming Soon

    [https://ideas.sap.com/ideas/1434]

    I know the log on experience for Idea Place is not ideal and the reason is simply because it would have been this or nothing. Idea Place is a pilot today. There is a lot of energy that goes into these forums, if this could go into Idea Place, then WE could increase it's chance of success.

    Maybe this is coming from left field for some, so let me give some more background on the story.

    In general, there are a couple of ways to get projects started. One option is to get an executive to like an idea, give a bunch of resources and then enable a great solution to be built; commonly referred to as top-down. The other practice is to start with a very small amount of resources that one gets by working together with other teams (big credit to Anne Hardy in Vishal's group), then do what they can to prove to higher ups that it is a worthy project to invest in more; referred to as bottom-up strategy.

    I would love to say SCN and related projects is SAP's #1 priority, but it is not... and this is why Idea Place got started as a bottom-up strategy. To do so, required making some sacrifices. Yes, SSO with SCN was pretty much out of the question. Actually, even recognizing SCN user ids was out of the question but we had some great people who managed to pull that off (thanks Harry Weppner). So if we consider that the other option would have been NEW accounts that would have been disconnected from SCN forcing Idea Place visitors to create yet another account with a separate username and password, I think what we have is pretty good.

    So Idea Place began... as a bottom up strategy, as a Pilot. This has proven well, thank you to those who have supported Idea Place, so far. Idea Place has had a lot of internal and external interest, visibility and buy-in and I would say is on a good track for SSO with SCN. However, Idea Place is not out of the woods yet and it needs your support to really showcase the solution, get enough ecosystem usage such that it gets internal buy-in to fund this project well.

    Understand that Idea Place is here to provide a stronger voice to you; not only for SCN but across all SAP's products and solutions. It takes a lot of time to scour 15 pages of forums discussion for a few requests highlighted here and there. And then to be able to determine whether this is a single person's random thought or a true pain for a greater group - it is just too difficult; especially, for a busy product or solution manager. That is what Idea Place is working to make our lives better for; to provide a stronger Voice of the Customer into SAP while providing a scalable model for product and solution managers to consume feedback and engage in discussion.

    I do ask for your patience while Idea Place moves from infancy into adolescence and then adulthood. As leaders and influencers in our community (you are the top 1% of SCN), I ask for your support. Idea Place needs a chance. If half the energy in these forums, went into sharing ideas on Idea Place, commenting, voting and encouraging other to do the same via blogs, forums, tweets, chats or however then WE can greatly increase the chance of success for Idea Place.

    Thank you

    Kuhan

    hofmann
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    Kuhan,

    it is just too difficult; especially, for a busy product or solution manager.

    And you think we are not busy and have spare time left to do work twice? The ideas are already in SCN, someone needs to transform them to Idea place.

    If half the energy in these forums, went into sharing ideas on Idea Place

    When you want the SCN users to share information, than I believe Idea place is suffering from a severe design erro: access. Idea place is locking SCN people out, whereas you want them to participate. To capture the ideas, you'll need a tighter integration into SCN (not just SSO, but also a link for: make an idea out of your thought that will create an Idea place item).

    br,

    Tobias

    Kuhan_Milroy
    Active Participant
    0 Kudos

    Hi Tobias,

    Just to clarify, I think the dialog and discussion occurring in the forums are quite good and I am not saying that discussion has to be only done on Idea Place. The innovative process happens in mysterious ways and of course, I encourage it to happen however, wherever and with whoever it can. And when the idea is ready (boiled, digested, solidified) then submit it on Idea Place.

    Idea Place is not only an interface for idea collaboration it is an interface for idea communication. Not only can a community member submit ideas there, they can also track them and see where each idea stands. When an idea is updated, they will get a status update providing transparency on what is happening. If the owning team wants to reach out to interested parties, for say a deep dive, then Idea Place will facilitate that connection. Without following the Idea Place, then there is no way to see where an idea is ranked or what the status of it is or be a part of further elaboration.

    When you want the SCN users to share information, than I believe Idea place is suffering from a severe design erro: access. Idea place is locking SCN people out, whereas you want them to participate. To capture the ideas, you'll need a tighter integration into SCN (not just SSO, but also a link for: make an idea out of your thought that will create an Idea place item).

    Any SCN or SMP user has access to Idea Place, can you explain how they are 'locked out'?

    As for linking from the forums to Idea Place, good idea. I've created that one now too.

    [https://ideas.sap.com/ideas/1436]

    Cheers

    Kuhan

    Former Member
    0 Kudos

    Mylène wrote: Where is harald, btw.??? I start missing him, since I start getting the feeling we are going round in circles ...

    Mylène, a late response as I recently switched employers and thus my focus is currently on other areas. But to your point, I had already my fair share of silly postings and I cannot discard the feeling that it's a bit like unsolicited feedback or more like a one-way street. It seems odd that SAP doesn't really moderate and summarize the discussion (and conclusions), which gives me the feeling of a project where the community can state their requirements (in a more incidental, possibly repetitive fashion), but we won't really know the solution/product until it's shipped. That's fair enough and I'm ready to be pleasantly surprised!

    (Footnote for Otto: Yes, I read your blogs - thanks for keeping us posted)

    Anyhow, as I don't see any specific tasks where I can help, I'll try to avoid further repetitive and opinionated SCN meta postings (I've vented enough already so it's time for some self-control) and focus on the stuff that I'm getting paid for (SAP technology) or that tickles my geek interest (e.g. fun stuff like Scala).

    Cheers, harald

    p.s. (@Kuhan): I'm not really familiar with the idea place, but the site seemed still too awkward for a meta discussion on SCN (or any other topics with multiple ideas). E.g. we have currently 51 ideas on SCN, yet there's no (generated) overview page summarizing the ideas along with number of votes and comments (not to mention status and short conclusions or action lists). Maybe it's already there or somebody else has already requested it in help us improve the idea place... (admittedly I'm not really willing to spend much time as a beta tester there)

    Kuhan_Milroy
    Active Participant
    0 Kudos

    Hi Harald,

    There is existing functionality in the Idea Session to filter on Submitted, Under Review, Delivered, etc... ideas. This can be seen well with the ideas for Idea Place as it has 67 ideas alone and we have started some stage updates. With that said, a major Idea Place upgrade will be underway soon, so for Idea Place, we will be reviewing all the ideas. At this point, the votes are still low and it is a little early for the process so some more time will be beneficial for that case.

    There also have been some subsequent ideas on how to provide a more consolidated view of the ideas, including: Expand/collapse option. [https://ideas.sap.com/ideas/1356]

    My Ideas [https://ideas.sap.com/ideas/1121]

    However, it is clear that the ability to manage many ideas and perhaps the next phase of elaboration may need to be part of the site. Ideas and feedback on this is welcome... in Idea Place.

    Cheers

    Kuhan

    OttoGold
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    Do Ideas on Idea place match Community expectations?

    BrO

    OttoGold
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    I just spotted a comment by Harald below one of the Ideas. He also voted (against:)). Thank yo, Harald.

    I welcome others to do the same. Please help us decide, it will not take you more than few minutes.

    Isn´t it better than having to "migrate" all your ideas manually?

    Come on, people, vote and comment:))

    Cheers Otto

    martinlang
    Advisor
    Advisor
    0 Kudos

    The often referred to "Failed to Search Properly" abuse option has just gone live earlier today.

    As with the other abuse options, but maybe this one even more: think about it and give folks a chance to learn. Not everybody who hasn't searched properly does so intentionally. Some folks are inexperienced with forums and if we can teach them a few tricks, they can become awesome contributors.

    However there will be cases as often discussed in this thread and others, where this abuse option is very applicable, so I am hoping this is a small, but good improvement that ultimately is designed to help maintain or improve the quality of forum discussions.

    Former Member
    0 Kudos

    Thanks for the update. And I agree with the warning, because the search feature is not necessarily one that easily provides good results. I don't have a proper name, but essentially I think the Failed to search properly is supposed to catch situations where the poster asks trivial questions, questions that have been answered before (and should be easy to find) or is simply inconsiderate by throwing out something without putting in some effort/thinking on her/his side. The latter often falls in the category requirement dumping. So instead of limiting the abuse to a failed search effort I would have preferred to see something more general that points out a general lack of own effort before posting. But I think usage in that broader sense is is probably the way it was intended...

    I'm actually thinking of the many threads where you people ask questions that have not been answered before, but would be trivial to find out with a quick test in the system or something similar, but not necessarily a search.

    Jelena
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    >

    > The often referred to "Failed to Search Properly" abuse option has just gone live earlier today.

    Yay! Thank you. See - it wasn't so difficult after all.

    To your point - I remember a fairly recent post when someone asked how to find a "terminal resolution" while search with the correct word (monitor/display/screen) would have brought some results. In that case it was clearly a "lost in translation" issue.

    former_member184657
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    Thank you Martin for the much needed updation

    Too bad it came at a time when I have less need for it

    Your Caution warning will be heeded to.

    pk

    OttoGold
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    Ladies and gentlemen, check the slip about the APIs here:

    regards Otto

    Former Member
    0 Kudos

    <b>Otto</b>, as a programmer you really got me excited with the API hint. However, I must admit I was pretty disappointed to see that this is just another RSS feed for top contributors (and I'm totally clueless why in the world anybody would be interested in such a feed).

    <p/>

    But that's just a side note, here's why I actually felt again compelled to post: The addition of the new icons for contributor status. I guess they were instituted by popular demand (a bit of an overkill to me, because total number of points is already present and I don't really care if the person recently had enough time for posting answers). In a way they are probably an example of a better usage of an icon. I.e. the icon is kind of self-explanatory and in case you wonder, just hover over it and you'll see an explanation.

    <p/>

    Now let's try that on other icons:<ul style="list-style:circle!important">

    <li><em>Moderators</em>: Nothing</li>

    <li><em>SAP Mentors</em>: Nothing (icon is not really intuitive to me, but hey, a link shows up indicating mentors)</li>

    <li><em>Star for awarded points</em>: Nothing - weird, I thought at some point there was at least an explanation, but maybe that's gone due to the latest forum formatting hiccups?! It's also very interesting to see new forum users who just read answers - most of them have no clue that this star actually points out that the original poster attributed some value to the answer...</li>

    </ul>

    Now the part that actually left me pretty puzzled from the start, is why there's a <em>Reply</em> link text in addition to a reply icon - seems redundant to me. Similarly the blue up arrow in front of the <em>in response to</em> text doesn't seem to add any value (but maybe it's intended as an alternative access channel for those who wonder what happens when they click on the name or as a visual divider?).

    <p/>

    I also dislike those formatting adjustments due to overlong user content boxes (if you wonder what I'm talking about, look at postings by <a href="http://forums.sdn.sap.com/profile.jspa?userID=3693743" target="_blank">Rich Heilman</a>). Not to mention the fact that those icons in the user box definitely were not designed for a unified and appealing look and feel. And yes, I know this is all minor stuff, but maybe others feel similar and would prefer to see a real compelling design.

    <p/>

    My apologies for not posting on the idea place. As S-users are now allowed, I probably should have gone there, but I felt that this thread still seems to be the main focus point.

    OttoGold
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    I find the new SCN infrastructure 2.0 blog relevant for the readers of this interesting thread:

    cheers Otto

    Former Member
    0 Kudos

    Is it typo error or now after Forum,blogs, wiki now something wrong with articles...

    http://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/scn/index?rid=/library/uuid/20dfd97d-5792-2d10-acbf-aa32f044b1d0

    Today it's 26th August 2010 and the article is published on 28th August 2010...

    Sorry the article is really nice.. just noticed something wrong on the date ...

    -Pushkar

    former_member46
    Advisor
    Advisor
    0 Kudos

    Well its the first time I've seen that. I will pass the bug information on.

    Thanks

    JasonLax
    Product and Topic Expert
    Product and Topic Expert
    0 Kudos

    Thanks for reporting this. It's not a bug: it was intentional. The author wanted this date and since I can't be at work Saturday to upload it, I went ahead with it as is.

    (I didn't think anyone would notice...)

    By the way, the author has provided an updated version that will be uploaded soon. If you liked it, please provide your rating and a comment.

    Thanks!

    ChrisPaine
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    Hi,

    another little one:

    Flag messages previously reported as abuse

    my memory is pretty good, but having a small child who sometimes seems to believe sleep is optional, I am sometimes a little forgetful with what exactly I have done. It would be really nice if there was some way that I could see if I had previously reported a message as abuse, so that I didn't accidentally double report it. A change to the report abuse icon so that it looked different if I had already reported that message perhaps?

    lbreddemann
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    After browsing through this rather lenghtly thread, I'm actually not sure whether my simple suggestions are at the right place here... anyhow:

    I'd love to have an enhancement of the markup language used in the forum.

    It's currently unnecessarily hard to put links to blogs, wikis and SAP notes into forum posts so that these links look nice.

    Why don't provide a tag that automatically extends to a link with the notes title as the description?

    The same should work for SDN blogs, Wiki articles and the SAP documentation.

    Since many questions in the forums are actually answered by referring to either one of the mentioned resources, a better integration would be nice.

    regards,

    Lars

    ChrisPaine
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    >Why don't provide a tag that automatically extends to a link with the notes title as the description

    That would be pretty cool! It could also check the currently logged on user and if they weren't a service marketplace user add a "Log on to SAP Service Marketplace required" text on the link.

    To extend an idea that Otto and I played with earlier, perhaps if someone posted a URL for a note (they have a pretty easily recognised pattern) then the editor, on posting of the message, could automatically change the link into a tag and provide a suitable icon.

    Former Member
    0 Kudos

    Chris & Lars,

    added to [ToC|].

    Former Member
    0 Kudos

    It probably has been said and discussed already, but I couldn't find it...

    If people report abuse it seems that in some cases the message is deleted (I guess by a moderator), but any existing replies to the original message seem to remain. I find this rather confusing and would prefer a complete delete to keep the forums clean (especially if a message is worthwhile deleting it seems that probably nobody should have answered it).

    And just as a side note I must admit that the report abuse process is still not clear to me: I'm assuming that if I'd report abuse and the recipient of my complaint disagrees I'd get some feedback (so I stop doing this). Also, I prefer using the report abuse feature for really silly questions, instead of posting some general [RTFM|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rtfm] answer. I'd appreciate a short comment if I'm off here (or some pointer where the usage is described in more detail)...

    ChrisPaine
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    >If people report abuse it seems that in some cases the message is deleted (I guess by a moderator), but any existing replies to the original message seem to remain. I find this rather confusing and would prefer a complete delete to keep the forums clean (especially if a message is worthwhile deleting it seems that probably nobody should have answered it).

    Sometime the abusive message is the reply,for example on thread I started myself where someone has replied with a completely off-topic link - I've responded that I couldn't see the point of the link, and reported the response as abuse - the stupid post is removed but my comment about it remains. .

    Now I guess that the mod is trying not to offend me by removing my reply - but it does look a tad silly there in the message.

    The alternate I've seen is where the message gets locked, this is nice because it clearly shows other what not to do, but it does rather stuff the search functionality up (well, stuffs it up more)... Perhaps if there was some way that locked messages could be excluded from any search?

    I do wonder if the mod's ever do reply to those who report abuse, but I've never had any negative feedback, so I keep doing it...

    former_member184657
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    It probably has been said and discussed already, but I couldn't find it...

    As you expected, there has been a discussion on that one too

    pk

    OttoGold
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    And just as a side note I must admit that the report abuse process is still not clear to me.

    Not clear to me either. Maybe some of the mods could write a blog about it? Then such source could be easily referenced without discussing the same things again and again or explaining to the curious/ angry users.

    Something like the blog about "asking questions" (i don´t remember the exact name). I think this topic is worth a blog.

    By the way, I would like to read a log about the daily routine of the moderator as well.

    Regards Otto

    Former Member
    0 Kudos

    Kishan, thanks a lot for the good reference. Now I'm officially part of the ruling majority on SDN who cannot conduct a proper search before posting. My only hope is that some kind moderator might have mercy and deletes my message. Hold on, maybe I should just hit the report abuse on my message to provoke that?!...

    Former Member
    0 Kudos

    > By the way, I would like to read a log about the daily routine of the moderator as well.

    There are a few. Matt wrote a nice one -->

    Cheers,

    Julius

    former_member184657
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    Kishan, thanks a lot for the good reference. Now I'm officially part of the ruling majority on SDN who cannot conduct a proper search before posting.

    Thats the last thing one can accuse you of. Unless you thought of some gory search terms like beheading and headless, the chances of you spotting that thread was minimal.

    pk

    Former Member
    0 Kudos

    >

    > It probably has been said and discussed already, but I couldn't find it...

    >

    > If people report abuse it seems that in some cases the message is deleted (I guess by a moderator), but any existing replies to the original message seem to remain. I find this rather confusing and would prefer a complete delete to keep the forums clean (especially if a message is worthwhile deleting it seems that probably nobody should have answered it).

    Awesome!!!

    I am not the only one ... (well, there's been Jurjen, of course)! In the course of my 'Beheading Thread' I felt more and more like I was some miser who begrudged the mods a quick-mod tool. I feel much better now

    Since we are three of this opinion, let's add this to our wishlist for forum - improvements: a moderating tool, which does not 'behead threads', but -for example- moves the whole thread to a 'trash-bin-forum' - it should be as easily usable as the 'beheading'-tool, but without the 'corpses' ...

    marilyn_pratt
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    Hi Chris.

    Removed. (hopefully the right one to non-existent post)

    marilyn_pratt
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    Hi Otto,

    A quick cut and paste from the moderator guide (which is accessible for moderators only)

    Explains what the moderators do with abuse reports.

    Here is the tasks they would perform with the list of reported messages:

    Per each reported message, you'll see the message subject, the thread name, and date posted (of the original message).

    When you click the message subject, the message text will expand, along with the abuse report, as added by the reporter.On the top right corner of each message, there is an actions drop-down where you select the required action:

    Defer - An action will be taken later, leave in the abuse report.

    Approve - The abuse report is unjustified. The message should be left as it is.

    Edit & Approve - The message is valuable, but should be edited in order to remain published.

    In this case, an editing pane will open so you can edit the message.

    Reject - The message is an actual abuse and should be removed.

    In this case, the following email notification will be sent to the author:

    Subject: Sorry your SAP Community Network Forum Post has been rejected

    Hello,

    You have received this email because the message you posted below has been rejected by our moderators.

    You may want to check out the terms and conditions for using our forums: https://wiki.sdn.sap.com/wiki/display/HOME/RulesofEngagement You also find a link to them in the first thread of every forum.

    Hope you understand and continue to participate in our community.

    All the best the CN Community Team

    Sandra_Rossi
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    Thanks Marylin (and Otto for the question), that's very nice to see how moderators do their job. I was interested by this one especially as I was not aware of that: "The message is valuable, but should be edited in order to remain published."

    Next times, I'll take time to write these abuse reports so that it can be published directly.

    Former Member
    0 Kudos

    Yep, and the comment field is very usefull for us to understand the context of the report. I always read that first and know the reliable reporters.

    Actually, when I finally get to meet PK in person then we will probably have little to say to each other anymore...

    Where usefull and appropriate I also provide feedback to the person who reported the thread, but that is not scalable in ABAP General for example.

    Personally I am still of the opinion that having active and knowledgable discussions is the best deterent. You seldom find abuses of such threads.

    I also predict that Anton will post next...

    Cheers,

    Julius

    ChrisPaine
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    Julius, sorry to disappoint you...

    Thanks guys for the education.

    And on to another forum suggestion...

    I get <mails_wot_is_e> sent to me to notify me of updates to threads - which is really useful. I'm sure we could come up with/there is a better way, with personal RSS feeds etc, but the <mails_wot_is_e> work for me at the moment. (That said, trying to look at my watch-list times out, seems my proxy can't believe any website should be that slow to respond... I guess that's an issue when you start being active.

    However, very often - especially when it's threads like this one - users are using formatting in the thread which doesn't transfer through to the <mail_wot_is_e>l. Strike-though is an example of this which can mean that the <mail_wot_is_e> version of the thread can imbue quite a different meaning than intended.

    My <mail_wot_is_e> client does support formatting, I doubt that there are many left out there that do not. I think we should be able to receive formatted notification <mails_wot_is_e> ? (emphasis added to make it easier to spot the enhancement request I'm putting forward

    Sorry - this post in initial version failed the forum guidelines check - wtf!!! Please read for <mail_wot_is_e> E M A I L... far ooot! Any mod that is able to get around this and replace the text, please feel free!

    ChrisPaine
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    @Marilyn - Thanks! I no longer don't as much look like I'm going crazy in a thread I started myself.

    former_member184657
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    Actually, when I finally get to meet PK in person then we will probably have little to say to each other anymore...

    That's not true. We need to discuss if the flick to fine leg is more elegant than a cut to square leg. We also need to exchange notes on some behind-the-SCN-curtain activites too

    pk

    ThomasZloch
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    >

    >

    > Edit & Approve - The message is valuable, but should be edited in order to remain published.

    > In this case, an editing pane will open so you can edit the message.

    Actually I'm often using this option to add my comment to the post outlining what is wrong with it, then locking the post. This way the original poster and the community can see what was wrong and hopefully avoid such behaviour in the future. If a poster remains ignorant about the warnings, then we have a nice track record to be presented to the "Men in Black" who can turn anybody into a Guest if justified.

    It was said before but cannot be stressed enough that precise abuse reports are of great value in keeping the forums clean, especially in a forum with huge traffic like ABAP Development, where it is impossible to study every single message.

    So thanks to all who are doing this already, and to the others, please join in!

    Thomas

    former_member184657
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    Even as I appreciate your approach, I have one query. What happens to all these locked threads? Of course they can be kept in the database for a certain period to know the history of the OP. But then after a certain period, say six months to one year, could these locked threads be deleted? I mean, there's no point these "useless" threads keep occupying MBs and GBs of database space.

    Also, can there be a counter on the number of post lockings on a OP? This will easily help catch repeat offenders. A step further would be to auto-forward the OP to the "Men in Black" after a certain threshold.

    pk

    ThomasZloch
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    >What happens to all these locked threads?

    I had the same thoughts about this, will probably ask in the moderator forum, but only after searching for existing discussions of the topic

    > Also, can there be a counter on the number of post lockings on a OP? This will easily help catch repeat offenders. A step further would be to auto-forward the OP to the "Men in Black" after a certain threshold.

    Sounds interesting, let's see what the Admins say.

    Thomas

    Former Member
    0 Kudos

    Mods have a means to check the number of Abuse Reports against an OP when another one comes in and starts looking familiar...

    People do however also make mistakes and making "the label" navigable for the entire internet to keep statistics on might not be the appropriate solution IMO.

    What would however be perfect is some sort of a "threash-hold has been exceeded" icon - like a dunce cap or a banana next to the OP's user ID name. It is a small % of repeat offenders who would earn it and send a clear message and warning to innocent community members, particularly new ones, who take the bait.

    Cheers,

    Julius

    former_member184657
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    Mods have a means to check the number of Abuse Reports against an OP

    Ive heard that before, but I always thought that was a scare tactic to warn repeat offenders

    What would however be perfect is some sort of a "threash-hold has been exceeded" icon

    I guess you meant "threshold has been extended"

    Or if you intended to say "trash-hold has been extended", that would make perfect sense too 😄

    pk

    Former Member
    0 Kudos

    > ... I always thought that was a scare tactic to warn repeat offenders

    I have imaginary friends, but everything else including enemies are all real!

    Enjoy the weekend,

    Julius

    ThomasZloch
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    Haha, I love that banana icon idea, like an anti-lemon, nothing to be proud of...I'm sure there will be voices against the "naming & shaming" effect, but it still is a funny thought, and would these folks deserve any better?

    Thomas

    P.S. let's put down bets on who would be the first user to feature all four icons!

    Jelena
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    >

    > What would however be perfect is some sort of a "threash-hold has been exceeded" icon - like a dunce cap or a banana next to the OP's user ID name.

    I like this too. Since this will apply only to repeat offenders, I don't think "naming and shaming" will be an issue. Anyone can make a mistake, but when it keeps happening, it's not just a mistake anymore.

    Another suggestion related to the abuse reports. In some forums, when notifying a moderator, there is a checkbox "Would you like to be informed of the result?" (unchecked by default). In some cases I actually would like to know what action (if any) was taken. It could be just an automated message, e.g. 'Moderator took action so-and-so' and moderators could add a note, if they chose to.

    Former Member
    0 Kudos

    What would however be perfect is some sort of a "threash-hold has been exceeded" icon - like a dunce cap or a banana next to the OP's user ID name.

    Though I must admit that I often fantasize about systems providing feedback via increasing electric shocks to misbehaving users , I'd rather avoid introducing [pillory|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillory]/[stocks|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stocks] type punishments in the real world. I think it would be more helpful to focus on marking good/excellent content as I'm more interested in what I probably should read than what I shouldn't.

    Also, given the fact that currently there's no prerequisites for posting messages (apart from registering, so no need to earn your right to post messages like on some other sites) I doubt that branded users would keep their shameful user ID for long.

    I found it interesting though that punishment via public humiliation actually still exists in the Western world: In US they use the phrase creative sentencing for custom tailored sentences for the committed crime (e.g. see [here|http://crimeprevention.crimereports.com/2009/11/09/creative-sentencing-public-humiliation/]). Though I don't mind the creative part, I tend to think that it's better to [avoid the public humiliation|http://www.danmarkel.com/Humiliation_is_simply_wrong.pdf] part ([UDHR article 5|http://www.ohchr.org/EN/UDHR/Pages/Language.aspx?LangID=eng]). An interesting topic with interesting [articles|http://www.humiliationstudies.org/documents/FlandersShameSSRNID967521.pdf] - but I digress...

    Anyhow, [silly arguments|http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y] aside, most of our feature requests seem incremental, whereas SAP also seems to think about a complete redesign (see Martin Lang's comments )?! I'd love to see some statement from SAP about their vision and future direction for the forums. But maybe it's all secret to create a craze like the first Apple iPhone release...

    Former Member
    0 Kudos

    Okay, agreed that a banana would be humiliating and no matter how deserved it is not the intention. However what was my intention was a means to warn all the rest of the innocent community bystanders of the fact that the OP or person answering a question has been a repeat offender of the rules so often that there is intention involved.

    That means guilty but still on the loose...

    I am sure it would have helped us solve problems such as ricx.c and erdam sas much earlier and spared many folks unpleasant experiences.

    Besides, if we add the word "banana" to the content filters to deter mocking then a banana icon is not further away from the real world than what the ponits system and related unspeakable words already are...

    Cheers,

    Julius

    Former Member
    0 Kudos

    > I'd love to see some statement from SAP about their vision and future direction for the forums

    Seconded.

    Which brings us nicely back to the subject of this thread ...

    Btw. I have been updating the ToC (and removed various buggy links) ... here:

    If still interested, Marilyn - would you please be so kind as to replace the current version at the top of this thread? Thank you.

    Edited by: Mylène Dorias on Jul 20, 2010 12:23 PM

    Jelena
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    As promised, here is my wish/complaint/suggestion list:

    1) Search seems to be one of the major u201Cpain pointsu201D so far. Quite frankly, I stopped using SDN search a while ago and here is why. For example, try entering u201Cidea placeu201D in the Search box on the front page. The relevance seem to be way off, comparing with the search for u201Cidea place site:sdn.sap.comu201D on Google, for example. Next, try narrowing the search down to Blogs. Why does every entry start with u201CSAP Network Blogu201D now? But thatu2019s not all u2013 now try going back to your previous results. If you click browseru2019s u2018Backu2019 button, it will take you to the front page. Who designed this?

    2) I absolutely agree with idea of using Reputation. It works well on many forums (e.g. slickdeals.net) and anyone can add either positive or negative u201Crepu201D. This would help to better recognize the value of contribution, I believe. For example, sometimes I see an excellent reply by someone on an older post and Iu2019d like to give u201Cthumbs upu201D to the user. But I canu2019t assign p-o-i-n-t-s on someone elseu2019s post and even if I reply with u201Cthank youu201D, the post is most likely not being watched anymore. Moreover, itu2019s possible that miserly OP hasnu2019t even assigned any p-o-i-n-t-s for that (I do get that sometime u2013 u201Cthanksu201D but no p-o-i-n-t-s, not that Iu2019m complaining but still). There are some drawbacks but this system has worked successfully on many forums for years (there is even a word u201Creppedu201D = added to reputation).

    3) Newbie posts could be dealt with similar to the spam emails. When reported to moderator, the message would be moved to a u201Cspamu201D forum and permanently deleted from there after N days. If anyone wants to search the u201Cspamu201D forum u2013 here you go. Naturally, the users would get warned and u201Cguestifiedu201D after too many u201Cspamu201D posts (thatu2019s what they are, actually).

    4) Reasons for u201Creport abuseu201D button MUST be changed. I think the reasons should be along these lines:

    - Wrong forum

    - Did not use search/did not read documentation

    - Generic/Interview/Do-my-job question (i.e. useless for SDN community)

    - Something to do with copyright

    - Offensive post

    - Other

    5) Markup language could be at least partially replaced by the buttons in editor. There is a lot of space on the toolbar, why not use it? I personally donu2019t care about learning almost another programming language, yet its description occupies a large chunk of the screen. (See also this [post|])

    6) The whole last page of the thread being replied to should be displayed below the message editor. Currently only one post is displayed and, on top of that, I have to scroll to it because of the above mentioned markup u201Cdocumentationu201D.

    7) This might be a bit bigger project, but I think the forums could use a reorganization. Ideally, the users should be able to u201Croll upu201D or hide the areas they donu2019t care about. For example, I mostly visit SD and ABAP forums. SD is buried in the middle of other modules and ABAP is also not easy to find anymore. Also the u201Cgeneral discussionsu201D should be either at the very top or very bottom IMHO.

    😎 ...and we should be able to use any words, except profanity, in General Discussion forum. Why do I need to spell "p-o-i-n-t-s" like I'm selling Viagra or something?

    Edited by: Jelena Perfiljeva on Jun 21, 2010 5:01 PM

    OttoGold
    Active Contributor
    0 Kudos

    8 wishes = 8 years

    ChrisPaine
    Active Contributor