sap ehs - How and where do we get physical chem properties for msds

[former_member212503]

Hello All ,

I came up with a situation where we are looking for the solution for some properties in standard property tree  . Looks like we do not get from the provider some informations like Physical chemical properties . I guess IUCLID gives us some information but for only those chemicals registered under REACH . Who does actually provides all these information . Any idea ?

Regards,

Krishna

[Former Member]

Can you integrate information from publicly available database, such pubchem, NTP

Arindam

[ruediger_kreuzholz]

Hi Krishna,

SAP offers a cloud content service called SAP EHS Regulatory Documentation. With that, SAP provides a full set of component data (including phys.-chem., tox., eco tox., etc. data), classifies products (REAL_SUBs) for SAP's customers, and creates safety data sheets for them. Via a connection between SAP's factory system and the customer's SAP EH&S OnPremise system, SAP can directly provide component and product data and SDSs into the customer's SAP EH&S OnPremise system. Certain data on product level such as density and flashpoint have to be provided by the customer, as these data cannot be determined by SAP's experts and have to be measured. For more information, see the web page or brochure.

Best regards,

Rüdiger

[Former Member]

Thanks Rüdiger for clarifyng on this!

I see SERC customers mostly under the impression that SAP would provide almost all the data under the content (including component's) and all they need to only run the rules, & generate the SDS

We as consulting/implementation partners have had tough times to make customers understand that SAP also has something called as on-demand cloud documentation which should be bought seperately. I wish this is rather understood by customers while evaluating/purchasing the SERC content, so that surprises can be avoided later. I hope concerned in SAP would stress on this to the next SERC customers

Regards,

Pavan

[christoph_bergemann]

Dear Pavan

the SAP customers act in most cases different. Some of them do have "close" link to SAP some not (depends mainly as well on size of the company). Many customers get information from SAP using e.g. via "working groups" (like ASAG etc.). This company which have close connection to SAP understand in most case better the services SAP provides (like SERC). But you are right: SAP cusfomers do gave difficulities to understand terms used by SAP and to understand the services (e.g. long time ago it was called "mySAP" solution space).

So I would agree on quir quite general statement: "We as consulting/implementation partners have had tough times to make customers understand that SAP also has something called as on-demand cloud documentation which should be bought seperately."

C.B:

[christoph_bergemann]

Dear Krishna

anything on REAL_SUB level must be maintained by company themself; only "partilly" they can use data from literature (depends on the product)

Anything on LIST:SUB level: many data can be prOvided by data provider; but you can maintain your self

Anything on e.g. DG_CL_SUB etc. level: here the same: some data provider exist; in most cases companies are collecitng the data themselves

IUCLID: there exist some interfaces between SAP and IUCLID (becuase of lot of reasons); the sue of these interfaces seems to be limited; you will find may be not more than 10 threads here to discuss the topic

C.B.

[former_member212503]

How does companies collect these data if they cant find within their organisation . Is there some third party to maintain these data ?

[christoph_bergemann]

Dear Krishna

you need to differentiate "search" and the "maintenance".; in most case the "search" is the most expensive step; e.g. google and other tools are "helping" sometimes to collect some data; but normally this kind of data need to be searched for by different methods

Maintenance. different kind of aspect: I am not "100 %" sure but in former times TechniData (more specific a company related to TechniData) maintained such data "on behalf" of company XY in the SAP system. I am not 100% if the SAP services (which exists according to my knowledge) covers this "maintenance" (and may be as well the "search part);

But in > 80% of the cases REAL_SUB data is maintained by the company using SAP; how they collect the data is organized inmost cases comapny specific

E,g. if you look for the REACH aspect the story is here "special". EU companies (an dcompanies who would liek to import in EU) are "forced" by regulation to share the data (including physical chemical data) (but here foe an object you can sepcify as a "LIST_SUB" and not a REAL_SUB !; if the data does not exist; of they can not find any data provider or agent who can provide the data: you have no other options as to make the "measurement" to get e.g,the density

And here comes "IUCLID" in place; if your are one "registrant" you need to share the data with otthers using IUCLID; but then you can as well use the data form other companies (but as always: you have tp pay for this).

C.B.

PS: for REAL_SUB: e.g. density, flashpoint etc.: in most cass you must measure the data yourself (execurte an experimetn todetermint denisty etc.) or you can use "expert judgement": as a kind of example: if you just cook coffee, use milk in side and sugar you can define this as a "REAL_SUB". As the major part of the mixture is water you can assume that the denisity of thsi mixture is teh same like water; but this is not the always the case. But chemical literature "knows" calculation methods for mixtures as well; but can not always use them /depending on the component you mix);

[Ralph_P]

Hi Krishna,

most companies purchase these data from content providers such as SAP. Here we are talking about data from substance lists only! Fot the REAL_SUB data, each company is on its own, they need to do the necessary tests to get the data they need for their products.

A Google search is not legal. It will only bring results of data from other companies and you have no permission to use their data. Of course you can download official lists like EINECS or ELINCS and use those. I believe they can be used freely, but I'm not sure.

Ralph