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I've set up my own mirror. http://wikileaks.yireh.ch

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Is this a joke or you guys take this seriously?

best Otto

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> Is this a joke or you guys take this seriously?
> best Otto

Try the link... all is not what it seems.

Here's another mirror: http://wikileak.yireh.ch


> Is this a joke or you guys take this seriously?
> best Otto

I sent the link to my daughter. Her response was almost to the word, the same as yours.

Rob

Apart from the jokes, what does SDN think about wikileak cables?

Are you having fun reading about your politicians or politicians abroad?

Maybe what has been published is not a real news, but it's interesting to see the common wisdom confirmed by a 'Confidential' embassy document.

Hi Federico,

maybe I am naive but to me some of the content that has been published really was news and I am shocked. To learn that the US of A doesn't respect the privacy of anybody in the world, not even the one of their partners, allies, friends or respected authorities like the secretary general of the UN by encouraging folks abroad to spy as much on anybody as much as they can, even collecting DNA samples of people they speak with is a real scandal to me.

To see that members of the establishment are able to publicly call for the assasination of a person on major networks without any consequences and despite the fact that after months the whole administration failed to bring forth any legal justification for such measures (any measures) is really frightening to me.

Witnessing that students of international law(sic!) are advised by the administration of a respected university not to read and discuss(sic!) something particular, otherwise their careers might be endangered is something I would have been attributing only to North Korea or Iran a few months ago.

I don't care about the gossip-style language of those cables, diplomats are people as you and me, and to make their point they sometimes use explicit language.

So, in my opinion those leaks are important for the society here and there. They could have the potential to be a game-changer, both into a good or bad future.

My 2 cents, anton

Hi Anton,

maybe I'm too cynic, but you're perfectly right about that cable. It is shocking.

Many media have referred to the cables like gossip and, of course some of them are quite funny to read.

Still, they are the product of the official embassy, and US personalities rely on them when visiting abroad; at the same time we can rely on them when we want to know more about some fact we heard about on the newspapers. Especially when the newspapers gave us a totally different picture: I was just reading a cable about an episode of 'friendly fire' during the Afghan war, where the Italian government decided to cover a fault of the US army, giving an incomplete report to the newspapers.

I don't think we can have democracy without information, and wikileaks is fighting to warrant this.

I don't subscribe to the idea that Assange is a hero. I also don't think that just because information is secret that it is automatically bad, and must be revealed. The difficulty with the cable leaks is that they seem to be totally indiscriminate. To leak information that really is in the public interest is one thing - but to leak information just because it is secret seems rather irresponsible. Further, Assange's mission seems more to be about subverting US foreign policy than championing democracy. There is an attitude among some groups of people that anything that embarrasses or causes harm to the US is, de facto, a good thing.

Perhaps the Anonymous group would serve democracy better by targetting totalitarian, repressive states, enabling the populations of such places to access and share information easily and in safety, than by launching DDoS attacks against Paypal and the like, whom they have, non-democratically, deemed are supporting the US.

From a social perspective I find the whole situation absolutely fascinating. It seems that once information is in the public domain, it cannot be suppressed - all because of the nature of the internet. The proliferation of wikileak mirrors exemplifies this. Whether you are in favour of or against what Assange and his cohorts have engineered, in a few years we may well look up this as a watershed moment - the day when things changed.

btw - I'm reminded of a quote from the British political sitcom, Yes Minister. "The Official Secrets Act is to protect Officials, not Secrets".

I donu2019t know if the wikileak issue can be seen as anti-Americanism. Of course, USA have been targeted, but being the most important nation in the World (from a military and economic point of view) puts you in the centre of the World attention.

We live in a society based on information (the society of the spectacle said once a guy) and the wikileak project is releasing this information u2018rawu2019, as is, without any media interfering (even better, we can read the article on the Guardian and at the same time check the source analysing the original cable).

This may be unpleasant for a couple of diplomats and for the people at the Government, but it can be very useful for the rest of us. Democracy means participating in the political decisions, but when you take a decision you need information. And the cable archive is one of the sources of information. You can read and take your conclusion.

One may say those are secret conversations and we are not allowed to lurk but, as long as I pay the consequence of every bad decision of the government, I prefer to be informed.

P.s.why do you want to protect Officials? 😛

> I donu2019t know if the wikileak issue can be seen as anti-Americanism. Of course, USA have been targeted, but being the most important nation in the World (from a military and economic point of view) puts you in the centre of the World attention.

The leaks themselves are not - I was commenting on Assange's motives. And those of "Anonymous".

> P.s.why do you want to protect Officials? 😛

I don't. But the people who drafted the Official Secrets Act(s) most certainly did!

Matt,

unfortunately you discuss the issue on the same level which some 'establishments' deliberately want to draw the attention to. Is the person Julian Assange - despite what he himself maybe thinks - anyhow important to the story? He's just the one who had the balls to do what he did.

Do you think it is okay that governments hide from their people through excessive secrecy what the people if they knew about it coddemn? Politicians and diplomats are paid to work for the society and not against it.

Do you believe that (intelligent) citizens of the US appreciate if their elected officials steal the DNA and other private information of anyone in the world including probably their own people?

Do you believe that (intelligent) citizens of the US are fine with the fact that their government puts strong pressure on other countries' justice systems to not clear criminal allegations occasionally involving US citizens?

Why not discuss the behaviour of the official here, there and everywhere brought to light by the cables? Behaviour at least I for myself would want to see changed.

As a matter of fact I wouldn't want my government to act so hostile against partners, friends, allies, ... . If I knew they did, I'd ask them somehow to stop through some protest or at least not re-elect them later.

my 2 cables,

anton

btw, as a close look at the wikileaks site shows, WL isn't even specifically targetting the US. just because of the weight the US has in the world and just because some insider decided to steal an pass 250k documents at once the US seem to be in the focus, whereas there are a lot of leaks from elswhere in the world being published.

My comments were not re: the leaks, the ethics of wikileaks or anything like that, but rather about the response and reaction that some people have to this event - that Assange, Anonymous etc. are some kinds of heros - and that leaking information is, per se, a "good thing". That Assange and Anonymous are the "good guys" and the US administration, Sweden etc. are the "bad guys".

The contents of the leaks, and the response of various government and other organisations to them is an entirely different, and extremely interesting matter.

>They could have the potential to be a game-changer, both into a good or bad future.

Oh yes.

Edited by: Matt on Dec 23, 2010 4:22 PM

You may be right about that:for sure there are a lot of people who have never read a cable (nor they want to) supporting Assange and declaring war to the World. But it's the appeal of a single man fighting the Giants (or this is the idea they want to give 😛 don't take me too seriously).

Regarding Anonymous, well, it's a bit complex, for sure Anon is not good, nor he wants to be good.

The DoS attack is not new, I remember the netstrikes more than 10 years ago (it was an Italian thing, not sure if used worldwide...), also the targets of the attack were symbolic (the home page of the corporate website), but it was quite funny to see a lot of people without a proper organisation spreading rage across the internet.

In this era of Information Technology, information is power. It helps us make an informed decision. Information is the biggest and only weapon for a common man to tackle the might of any intimidating power. So whether they are secret foreign policies or shady dealings, it's a weapon that can pierce the armory of big governments and government officials.

The best thing that happened to India in the past decade is [The Right to Information Act|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_Information_Act]. This Act whenever used against erring officials, beaurocrats and politicians has uncovered scams and scandals of huge proportions. Hence, it not only helps tackle corruption but also helps you make an informed decision in choosing your future leaders.

So IMO whether the cables come via Leaks or Acts, as long as they clear the mist before your eyes, Im fine with it.

wikileaks assam jo

Thunder bolt stroke to All black money people...Specially for policitians of India.

Swiss accounts are opening Glad I dont have account

does any one?? Mat,Julius,Thomas any one having ?

Regards

sas

I have four Swiss bank accounts and one UK bank account. All fully disclosed to the relevant tax authorities of course. Funny thing, in Switzerland tax evasion isn't a criminal offence. It's a civil offence, and attracts interest and penalties if your caught doing it. But unless there's fraud involved, it isn't criminal.

i think it was long years back when Indian people used Swiss banks, now they also changed to some other nation banks like Singapore banks which giving more facilities compared to Swiss. wiki leaks saying the same, only few Indians have accounts in Swiss banks.

may be Julius is having accounts in [Julius Baer bank.|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Baer_Group]

regards

Mahesh

may be Julius is having accounts in [Julius Baer bank.|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Baer_Group]

he doesnt have an account but own the bank

~Andrew

Hey, I'm too thick and scared as well to even setup a Paypal account.

Also, the Julius Baer Bank has been involved in scandals with the tax authorities (handing over some customer information to them) so they are bringing this name into disrepute - something which I want to distance myself from.

@ Matt: Actually in canton Solothurn (were I live) it is legal to avoid tax once in your life without having to fear prosecution. If you do it twice and get caught then they take action. So, you need to save your "joker" for the year in which you win the lottery...

Cheers,

Julius

Italian PM suggests Antigua tax system also.

> So, you need to save your "joker" for the year in which you win the lottery...

Lol!! Julius trademark of the day....

Regards

sas

Hmm,

joking about a serious issue.

I think I got to load my Low Orbit Ion Cannon and point it at yireh.ch.

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Jokes about frivolous issues aren't funny. As the saying goes "you've got to laugh, haven't you".


> "you've got to laugh, haven't you".

Yup (it took a bit longer than it should have though).

Rob

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