SAPs Mobile Strategy

[Former Member]

Hi, guys!

I' m wondering what to think in which direction SAPs strategy for web applications running on mobile devices is pointing today.

Mobile Web Dynpro and ITS Mobile cannot be the answer to the challenges of todays mobile world - they are proprietary (which itself is not the problem), slow in reacting on new device types/operating systems/mobile browsers (which is a problem and imho a result of the first point), buggy and limited on a handful of already outdated devices/operating systems/browsers (I think due to extensive usage of Java script).

What do you think that a customer with requirements for web applications running on numerous different mobile devices with 1-3 year life cycles and regular operating system/browsers should choose as implementation platform?

Sybase, SAP NetWeaver Mobile (with the same problems as described above), or go completely 3rd party?

Best Regards,

Thomas

[Former Member]

What about some good old BSP pages with a dash of JQuery Mobile!

[Former Member]

Thank you very much for that hint, Gregor. I already checked out some weblogs regarding this technology combination. Looks promising to me. But the one thing I' m quite uncertain about is how BSP is going to be developed and supported further - with their pathological madness about WDA.

Regards,

Thomas

[Former Member]

What about some good old BSP pages with a dash of JQuery Mobile!

according to [SAP's Best Built Apps guidelines|;, paragraph UI-TECH-6 SAP officially "...doesn't encourage use of Business Server Pages...".

Whatever conclusion one draws from that ...

anton

[Former Member]

This is kind of fancy, because in an interview with Jon Reed on [ERP Executive|http://www.erpexecutive.com/2011/08/next-generation-abap-development-the-erp-executive-interview/] Thomas Jung posted the following statement in the context of "Next Generation ABAP Development":

"For your everyday ERP user working on SAP GUI today, everything technology-wise is migrating to Web Dynpro ABAP, so this book is centered around Web Dynpro ABAP. But there are some specialized use cases we also touch on, such as external facing web pages. In that case, we show how you can leverage Ajax and HTML5 within BSP as an alternative. "

To me it seems that SAP itself cannot find a clear answer on what technology to use with regards to web development for external applications - and especially those for mobile devices - especially when it comes to the question of protection of investments in new approaches.

If BSP, which to me is the most flexible ABAP web development approach, is not recommended, should we then use JSP on a SAP NW AS Java for the combination with jMobile Query? Ridiculous, if you think of all the overhead and problems of these two-stack-implementations (which brought SAP back to single-stack and porting WDJ-based applications to WDA).

Regards,

Thomas

[stephenjohannes]

Thomas,

I agree with you that the strategy has been changing and its somewhat hard to trust because the "next new thing" will come along and replace whatever they told us a year, two years, five years ago.

So to make your life easier as you know SAP announced that business suite maintenance was extended to 2020. So for me in 2011/2012, I would pick a technology available in Netweaver 7.3 that you are comfortable with the realization that around 2018/2019 you are going to need to replace it anyway. This is of course if you don't want to buy/purchase SUP.

As for getting your elusive answer to preferred mobile development non-SUP option, I just don't see it happening because it would hurt the sales of SUP. Yes I realize that it should be possible to get answer, but IMHO there is too much $$$ invested in SUP for customers to be sold/told about other alternative solutions.

Take care,

Stephen

[Former Member]

Hi, Stephen!

Thanks for the straight-forward answer. I agree with you that there is no - and until the next big deal won't be - another answer on this question to expect from SAP then SUP.

As the overall-decision which technology to further pick for a specific purpose like this will not be made by me, but much smarter people like architects and technology strategy board members, I just collect information and pass it on to the real decision makers

Anyway, I appreciate your hint on the extended maintenance of NW7.3 and the resulting freedom of choice for any technology based on that platform, but I personally doubt that it will come out on top considering that there are other, cheaper platforms offering similar or even more sophisticated web application development features.

And with its (half-forgotten) eSOA-strategy it should be no problem to simply build "loosely coupled" applications utilizing the rich functional services offered by the SAP Business Platform already . Hahaha!

Best Regards,

Thomas

[stephenjohannes]

Yep and personally I always think the KISS and use what you got guidelines should override any desire to use the latest toy unless that meets those two guidelines. Then again my other favorite is you can only choose two of out of the following "quality", "cost", or "speed" for most projects.

Take care,

Stephen

[Former Member]

Come on, guys!

Has nobody got an idea or something to say about this specific aspect of SAPs favorite topic (besides HANA) - the mobility?

I mean SAP presented to us Mobile Web Dynpro - now discontinued in further developent, the unspeakable NetWeaver Mobile - is there any producitve installation with productive applications worldwide, then acquired Sybase.

As well-behaved developers, we followed every trend (WDJ, NW BRM, VC, NW BPM - just to mention some), built-up skills and now watch them disappear silently - not to speak about our companies that built infrastructure, knowledge, started implementations and struggled with the half-baked technologies and now see these investments quesioned.

Isn't there anybody that can answer the following: Which technology should a software architect choose to build web-applications for mobile devices with SAP ERP as backend?

Regards,

Thomas

[Former Member]

Hi, again!

My last shot on this topic. Let me explain why I' m so eager to get an answer for this - in my opinion - simple question "What technology to use for platform-independent web-applications that run on mobile devices and interact closely with SAP ERP backend".

SAP previously praised Mobile WD as a solution for mobile online applications; we figured out that there are a huge amount of restrictions regarding platform-specifics (hardware, os, browser version) and also had to realize that WDJ is no strategic technological platform any more (as it won't be developed any further). We also heard about Mobile ITS - but this approach had even closer restrictions regarding it's runtime environment on mobile devices.

So, now it should be SUP - but to be honest: Considering how fast SAP changed its UI strategies in the recent past and therefore how fast investments made in now frozen/obsolete technologies (VC, WDJ, GP ... only to name few of them) I won't suggest my employer to buy even more SAP technologies and invest in additional licenses, training, infrastructure build-up a.s.o.

Imho it should be possible to build state-of-the-art web applications with the existing SAP infrastructure for mobile devices that are truly platform independent. The question is only: How? Should we return to Java-native approaches (JSP) or community-projects (Mobile JSF)? In this case, we don't need SAP Java-infrastructure any more, because with regards to JEE version it is already outdated, and SAP doesn't seem to go for a JEE6 implementation.

Has anybody of you come across the same thoghts or requirements?

Best Regards,

Thomas

[markus_doehr2]

> In this case, we don't need SAP Java-infrastructure any more, because with regards to JEE version it is already outdated, and SAP doesn't seem to go for a JEE6 implementation.

Netweaver 7.3 is based on J2EE 6:

VM-Name: SAP Java Server VM 
VM-Anbieter: SAP AG 
VM-Java-Version: 1.6.0_26 
VM-Laufzeitversion: 6.1.034 19.1-b02

Markus

[Former Member]

Hi, Markus!

It' s no certified JEE 6 implementation as far as I can see:

[Java EE 6 compatibility|http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javaee/overview/compatibility-jsp-136984.html]

And considering the quarrels between SAP and Oracle I wonder if SAPs going to invest into Oracle technology or certifications any further, but that' s another story.

We now already have expensive infrastructure (CE 711 with NWDI) and lots of technological option, but none of them gives us the chance to fulfill a simple requirement: platform-independent web-apps for mobiles.

Regards,

Thomas

[markus_doehr2]

> It' s no certified JEE 6 implementation as far as I can see:

And this is an issue for you? The certification? Or are there technical quirks? Just curious...

> We now already have expensive infrastructure (CE 711 with NWDI) and lots of technological option, but none of them gives us the chance to fulfill a simple requirement: platform-independent web-apps for mobiles.

If you ask me, there is no real platform-independence given the amount of end devices and browser versions. You see that with J2EE itself, there are a dozen (certified) implementations but you can't just exchange one with another easily - or did you ever try to run a WD-Java on Webs-Fear?

Markus

[Former Member]

Regarding the certification: Yes, it is, because if I' m working on a certified platform I can at least expect it to offer services and behave like certification specs require.

It' s not that I tried out NW 7.3 already, but if it won' t become a certified platform, I most certainly won' t even get a chance. Guys in indiv Java development department will argue that they get a certified app server and dev environment for free or less costs and can also connect to SAP via Web Services or JCo.

And - from my point of view - it would show SAPs committment to this technology if it continues to invest in it as it did in the past, which obviously isn' t the case (at least regarding certifications, trainings or proprietary UI/workflow technologies based on it).

But that' s another story.

Coming to the platform-independance of web-apps on mobiles: Your statement that we won't have a chance to fulfill this requirement is the first I one got in this society of experts! I of course cannot agree with it, because there are already numerous web-sites that offer mobile access. And considering the names of their owners (facebook, twitter or amazon for example) I think that they found a solution for supporting most devices available on the market.

There are W3C recommendations and best practices en masse, but what' s SAPs approach to that question. This is the one thing that I wonder - and what I would expect an answer for.

Regards,

Thomas

[markus_doehr2]

> Coming to the platform-independance of web-apps on mobiles: Your statement that we won't have a chance to fulfill this requirement is the first I one got in this society of experts! I of course cannot agree with it, because there are already numerous web-sites that offer mobile access. And considering the names of their owners (facebook, twitter or amazon for example) I think that they found a solution for supporting most devices available on the market.

Well, there's an app for iOS, one for Blackberry and one for Android, they may share some of the code but basically it's three applications (may using three different technologies) - or what makes you so sure they use only ONE platform for developing? I'm just curious, not meant to be offensive.

> There are W3C recommendations and best practices en masse, but what' s SAPs approach to that question. This is the one thing that I wonder - and what I would expect an answer for.

We too! We are and were evaluating different technologies but eventually did not come to a conclusion: I guess we will just wait a bit longer.

Markus

[Former Member]

At least for Amazon and Twitter I' m sure that there are scaled-down version of their main websites available optimized for small screens, but there are also specific web apps designed for mobile devices (e. g. Youtube mobile) - besides the native applications, of course.

I' m kind of eased to see that we' re not the only ones struggling with that problem, but I would expect SAP to officially comment on such an important question.

Regards,

Thomas

[stephenjohannes]

I' m kind of eased to see that we' re not the only ones struggling with that problem, but I would expect SAP to officially comment on such an important question.

Well I personally would never expect to see an official position being presented by SAP on this topic in the coffee corner. Its a good question but probably deserves a better place to find a response.

Now personally I think since SAP spent major cash on Sybase, of course they are going to recommend it as their "preferred" solution to develop mobile applications. Could you develop in another way, the answer of course is yes? If you want to mimic the design pattern that SAP is using for their mobile apps then SUP is the answer. Otherwise there are tons of other creative ways using what you have or other tools to deliver a solution with advantages and drawbacks as you know.

Since I don't work for SAP, I no qualms saying use the tool that meets your need regardless whether it is the SAP tool, but take a look first at whether you own or can purchase a tool from SAP that will work, if you need to integrate with SAP data. If you just need to do custom stuff and don't care about any integration with SAP products, then go have fun and use whatever you are willing to pay for :).

Take care,

Stephen

[Former Member]

Hi, Stephen!

Once in a while a topic draws the attention of SAP or a SAP employee, and then you' ll get some "pseudo-official" statements. If Thomas Jung for example tells us something about ABAP, I'll that that for granted.

Regarding the alternative approaches on mobile web development, you' re absolutely right - there are dozens of ways with an equal number of tools which will deliver proper results. But they - and their development teams - lack the connection to SAP, and a project with SAP and indiv. development department is always a great challenge with regards to communication, cross-system realization and operations.

After promoting Mobile WD, Mobile ITS and now SUP as strategic mobile web development platforms, I cannot trust in SAPs UI strategy slide sets any more.

So, I hoped that some SAP-insider would pick up the topic and give some enlightenment about these very special question

Regards,

Thomas