"Updation" and "upgradation"

[Jelena_Perfiljeva]

OK, I understand that for many of us (myself included) English is a second (or 3rd, 4th, etc.) language, but c'mon now. There are no such words in English language as "updation" and "upgradation"! It's "update" and "upgrade", for cripes sake.

What's interesting, the same people who cannot spell out "please" or "thanks" find time to type in those extra letters where they don't belong. Arrrgh...

[markus_doehr2]

I think that as long as words like

Kontoklassenreferenztypengruppenschlüssel

exist in SPRO, which is a SAP own 'Denglish', it should be allowed to say "updation"

Markus

[Former Member]

Hi Markus,

Do you know anyone who ever used this concept or whether it is even used in the coding somewhere? Isolated aspects of SPRO do not have any coding behind it...

In contrast, "updation" is very popular in some non-API spheres...

Cheers,

Julius

[Former Member]

Kontoklassenreferenztypengruppenschlüssel

no question that this is a monster of a word but what exactly is denglish about it (unless someone uses that word in english)?

anton

[Former Member]

First time encounter for me with [Pagination|http://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/scn/weblogs?blog=/pub/wlg/21550] [original link is broken] [original link is broken] [original link is broken]; on SDN.

I notice that help.sap.com uses it twice. I then also found it in [the Oxford Dictionary|http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0598170#m_en_gb0598170] ... !

This means it would be correct to say: "I was paginating through SDN when whatever..." or "How to do the pagination? Please do the needfull for 50 steps at a time!" .. etc

Cheers

Julius

[Jelena_Perfiljeva]

Now that "upgradation" is almost gone, my new pet peeve is "to take print out", as in this (overall remarkable, by the way) [post.|;

Since this is a professional forum, I don't want to say what comes to mind immediately in combination with "to take", but the next image in my head is a printout being taken away for questioning.

Why, or why there is an extra word?

[matt]

Oh dear. It looks like that post was moderated.

[Jelena_Perfiljeva]

Yes, that one was moderated (and justly so), but there are plenty more in General SD. Looks like this problem goes as far back as 2006:

[matt]

"take printout of invoice". What's wrong with "print out invoice"? It does rather sound like the invoice is being taken into an alley way and shot.

[ThomasZloch]

In German it's called "Substantivismus", e.g. "einen Vorschlag machen" (make a suggestion) instead of just "vorschlagen" (suggest), normally used by people who don't know better, or want to look more important, or have to reach a minimum number of words in their texts, or ...

Thomas

[Jelena_Perfiljeva]

>

> It does rather sound like the invoice is being taken into an alley way and shot.

My thoughts exactly! Again, English is not my first language, but I think "to take a printout" should only be used in context like "to take a printout from the printer", for example, and "to take print out" (original spelling) is just plain incorrect.

[Former Member]

New infiltration via ...

[Former Member]

Have Kishan read all the rules?

Reported to Moderator

Jm

[Former Member]

By now yes, for sure. The rules also changed at a few intersections.

I think the confusion may also be caused by the fact that I did a new updation on this old thread (a.k.a. "bumping").

Depending on the user-case and motive, that is also against the rules.

Cheers,

Julius

[former_member184657]

Have Kishan read all the rules?

Naa... I just get away with it for being a bully

pk

[Former Member]

Here is another one I had not seen before:

ps: The original message body of the post was simply:

>Send me asap plz

...so it got pepper-spraytion

Cheers,

Julius

[Former Member]

>

> There are no such words in English language as "updation" and "upgradation"!

Hi Jelena,

It is =>

Who brought(brang) English language?

Jesus? Allah? Shiva? Buddha? Adam And Eve? Or Nelson Mandela?

Celtic ( Widely known as kel-tik) was the only language of the people of England before Romans arrived in 43 AD.

Once, Romans left England. English land was taken by Vikings from Denmark. They spoke a Germanic language. Later they used mixed language german with Celtic and altered by people through generation to generation variations.

If our predecessor can alter the language than why can't we for our convenience?

Cheers,

Amit.

[matt]

> Who brought(brang) English language? 

Never mind who brought it, who owns it? The queen, that's who. Have you never heard of the term "The Queen's English".

>If our predecessor can alter the language than why can't we for our convenience?

You can and should. That's why English is such a rich language. But why invent new words when there's some perfectly well defined words already with identical meanings - "Updating" and "Upgrading".

[Former Member]

>

> Never mind who brought it, who owns it?  The queen, that's who.  Have you never heard of the term "The Queen's English".  

Again the question arises,Who Brought Queen?

People? Right.

Recursion.

Amit.

[ThomasZloch]

> Who Brought Queen?

Freddie Mercury, Brian May, Roger Taylor.

[former_member184657]

LOL...

[Killer Queen!!|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_queen]

pk

[Former Member]

Hope Kishan likes short cuts in everything...

May God Bless you!!! Two minutes silence for kishan.

Jm

Edited by: JohnMell02 on Feb 12, 2010 1:06 PM

[Former Member]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=upgradation

They are both slang and I wish folks would stop using both of these terms. It drives me crazy too !

[Jelena_Perfiljeva]

>

> They are both slang and I wish folks would stop using both of these terms.

Maybe they should be added to the filter or something? We can't use the word email, but "upgradation" is fine? There is something wrong with this logic...

[Former Member]

For myself it's not so much that upgradation is artifenglish, I'm more than happy to 'do the needful' when required.

It's that upgradation is such an ugly word, and as pointed out above, longer and more unwieldy than the perfectly good word it has started to replace.

And while I can discourage it's use in my everyday work, is it my place to point it out when answering a forum post? I could spend all day correcting grammar and spelling without even mentioning SAP technology.

Regards,

Nick

[former_member184657]

>

> Maybe they should be added to the filter or something?

....talking abt content filters why isn't ASAP and As soon as possible not part of the words-that-we-dont-talk-about list.

The content filters need an updation, I say...

pk

[Former Member]

> ....talking abt content filters why isn't ASAP and As soon as possible not part of the words-that-we-dont-talk-about list.

"ASAP" is also an SAP abbreviation for the ["Accelerated SAP" methodology|http://help.sap.com/saphelp_47x200/helpdata/en/48/623972d55a11d2bbf700105a5e5b3c/content.htm]

"As soon as possible" would probably as a pattern create too many red herrings (e.g. "As soon as I hit Enter, a message appears stating that debugging is currently not possible..." would be blocked).

> The content filters need an updation, I say...

Much like the second example, this would probably confuse as well. The person would be looking for forbidden thoughts and intentions in the posted text, and not a popular spelling mistake.

It reminds me a bit of the original intention behind table USR40 a long time ago, which was to define permitted characters which may be used in valid passwords. It was soon misunderstood with a significant momentum and is now forbidden patterns of characters - much like a content filter.

Cheers,

Julius

[Former Member]

....talking abt content filters why isn't ASAP and As soon as possible not part of the words-that-we-dont-talk-about list.

As much as I don't like slang language here (not for moral reasons actually, but simply because of communication efficiency - and in my opinion efficiency is not measured in the number of characters but understandability by a larger audience) I do not support the installement of a thought police extensively controlling what we are allowed to say and which way we say things. After all, upgradation is annoying but doesn't do any harm to anyone.

my 0.02, anton

[suresh_datti]

>

> "ASAP" is also an SAP abbreviation for the ["Accelerated SAP" methodology|http://help.sap.com/saphelp_47x200/helpdata/en/48/623972d55a11d2bbf700105a5e5b3c/content.htm]
> Cheers,
> Julius

Isn't there an 'upgradation' to ["Accelerated SAP" methodology|http://help.sap.com/saphelp_47x200/helpdata/en/48/623972d55a11d2bbf700105a5e5b3c/content.htm]? ie [RunSAP|https://websmp107.sap-ag.de/runsap]?

~Suresh

[matt]

>

> As much as I don't like slang language here (not for moral reasons actually, but simply because of communication efficiency - and in my opinion efficiency is not measured in the number of characters but understandability by a larger audience) I do not support the installement of a thought police extensively controlling what we are allowed to say and which way we say things. After all, upgradation is annoying but doesn't do any harm to anyone.
> 
> my 0.02, anton

You cannot believe how tempting it was to censor your post Anton. ( Purely for humour's sake, of course ).

[Former Member]

>

> After all, upgradation is annoying but doesn't do any harm to anyone.
> 

You must be using the new enhancementation framework then to avoid the [upgradeathon|http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=upgradeathon] and endless [debugtation|http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=debugtation] ...

[Former Member]

 You cannot believe how tempting it was to censor your post Anton. ( Purely for humour's sake, of course ).  

Be warned! Archibald Tuttle is a friend of mine!

[matt]

Is he in a tuttle-tuttle tree with ten tired turtles?

[Former Member]

Maybe we need a forum/wiki page with hints for non-native English speakers? It would help people in their postings, as quite often incorrect English can lead the reader into either misunderstanding the post.

It would cover non-words, confusing words and also unusual expressions - "updation", "prepone" and "revert back" being some examples.

[matt]

prepone is in my Shorter Oxford English dictionary... it's of Indian origin, and it's official English. In as much as any English is official.

Edited by: Matt on Feb 15, 2009 1:57 PM

[Former Member]

As you know, just because a word is in a dictionary does not not mean it is used in regular day to day communication.

[matt]

But prepone is... in our communication with our off-shore team.

[Former Member]

"prepone" is not known by Google traduction.

What does it actually mean ?

[Former Member]

Hi Olivier,

Prepone is I guess derived from postpone. Where postpone is to move something to after its original planned date, prepone is presumably to move it forward, to before it was originally planned.

Regards,

Nick

[matt]

Prepone is in the Oxford English Dictionary, with that definition. It's marked as Indian English.

One word that isn't (yet), but needs to be is "performant", meaning performing optimally.

[former_member184657]

It would cover non-words, confusing words and also unusual expressions - "updation", "prepone" and "revert back" being some examples.

Rejoice my fellow Indians and SCNers, our efforts towards the updation and upgradation of Oxford Advanced Learneru2019s Dictionary (OALD) have been looked into and they have reverted back to us with the same.

Considering the huge diaspora on Indian English speakers they truly had to prepone the decision for the inclusion of such words sooner than later. I can only say, Im thankful because they did the needful

http://www.dnaindia.com/lifestyle/report_now-entire-world-can-prepone-like-indians-only_1353503

= I pasted a link here, but why is it not visible?

pk

Edited by: kishan P on Mar 1, 2010 3:51 PM

Let me try again. Pls check this http://www.dnaindia.com/lifestyle/report_now-entire-world-can-prepone-like-indians-only_1353503 = Embedded link here also not visible. What's goin on?

Edited by: kishan P on Mar 1, 2010 3:52 PM

Edited by: Julius Bussche on Mar 1, 2010 8:51 PM

Edited by: Julius Bussche on Mar 1, 2010 8:51 PM

2nd try...

Edited by: Julius Bussche on Mar 1, 2010 8:54 PM

Something strange. The link is visible now but hyperlink is dead.

[ThomasZloch]

I tried editing your link in various ways, and my conclusion is that the word "lifestyle" must be on some blacklist.

Maybe an SCN super guru can clarify?

Cheers

Thomas

http://www.dnaindia.com/serious_business/report_now-entire-world-can-prepone-like-indians-only_13535...

Geez, I just made it up, but the link works?!

[matt]

That article says that "pone" means nothing.

Wrong. It means "put" or "place". But it is fairly archaic.

[former_member184657]

Link here => http://www.dnaindia.com/serious_business/report_now-entire-world-can-prepone-like-indians-only_13535...

It works just fine now... Wonder what had gone wrong. I was guessing that may be SCN had put a stop to pasting links in SCN. Even went to the extent of checking in ABAP General whether anybody else was facing the same problem (especially since it came immediately after a SCN Downtime) as me

pk

Edited by: kishan P on Mar 2, 2010 9:49 AM

[ThomasZloch]

I'm still amazed you can replace the middle part of the link and it still works:

http://www.dnaindia.com/do_the_needful/report_now-entire-world-can-prepone-like-indians-only_1353503

Must be one heck of a CMS...I'm not a webmaster though

Thomas

[former_member184657]

Neat!!!

pk

[jurjen_heeck]

Reminds me of the phrase: "I refuse to lower my standards, up yours"

In Dutch, as in many other languages (I suspect), vandalism is officially the act of a vandal. However, some cheeky reverse-engineering has lead to a new official entry in the dictionary for "vandalist". I am waiting for the first news report on vandalistism.

So, in due time.......

Cheers!

Jurjen

[Former Member]

I don't think we should only see the funny side to this. I try to remind myself of language differences and disadvantages for some members. I think SDN has coined a few new words for a wiktionary already, and updation and upgradation are popular enough that they should be considered for it.

> Reminds me of the phrase: "I refuse to lower my standards, up yours"

For the funny side, without comment => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXwpvGjPDJ0

Cheers,

Julius

[former_member184657]

>

> I think SDN has coined a few new words for a wiktionary already
> Julius

A couple more additions:

Solved myself
Ruwards if helpfull => No typos/evading-content-filters from my side

pk

[jurjen_heeck]

> No typos/evading-content-filters from my side

OMG! Actually owning up to bad behaviour in public! Shoudn't this one be in the thread

[former_member184657]

No worries.. I have O.J. Simpson's law team to save my back

pk

[David]

pk said...........

No worries.. I have O.J. Simpson's law team to save my back

Unfortunately, Johnny Cochran is dead. However, according to TV commercials here in the NYC area, his spirit lives on in the values of the lawfirm he left behind.

[Former Member]

and I thought it is updentificalication and upgraduation.

my favourite 'artifenglish' these days is "to abuse a posting".