How to "measure" working time of external SAP consultant, impossible?

[samnovice_new]

Hello,

Could anyone tell me is there any way to track/measure external SAP consultant time (which works from different geographic location online) and how much did one SAP consultant spend time/effort in solving any problem, no matter if it is entering new entry in some table (DEV-QAS-PRD) or some serious problem etc.

Problem is I that external SAP consultant had send me the bill for solving some problem which took him 3 hours to resolve. However, I know that this problem can be solved 100% for 1.5h and that's reason I am asking this question.

Is the best soulution to ask for detailed timesheet every time my external SAP consultant makes some changes - sends me the bill?

I hope I explained it correctly, any help is appreciated and many thanks in advance for prompt replys!

Cheers;)

Sam

[OttoGold]

If you can do it in 1,5hrs, why do you ask external to do it? Show us your lucky star in action.

If anybody starts pushing me like this, I would quit. If you cannot see the trusted adviser in me, don`t hire me. Over.

Otto

[samnovice_new]

If you can do it in 1,5hrs, why do you ask external to do it? Show us your lucky star in action.
If anybody starts pushing me like this, I would quit. If you cannot see the trusted adviser in me, don`t hire me. Over.
Otto

I agree with you, no one in that position should be pushed or forced to do it in faster time and that part is ok. I am no SAP consultant so I can't do it, but fact is that I know that other SAP consultants do the indentical job in much, much shorter time and that's only reason I asked this question. Currently I am not in position to change SAP consultant because it's not my call but anyway this topic helped me understand better how to measure SAP consultant time.

Best regards,

Sam

[matt]

If you can, pay according to results rather than time. Then you don't care how long he takes over it, so long as the job is done by your deadline.

I might take twice as long as a standard programmer to write a piece of code. However, if what I've written works first time, is easily enhanced, and is readily understood by anyone who needs to support it, then the extra time (and money) is worth it.

Anything that involves analysis is unlikely to be amenable to any sensible timing.It's like R&D. It takes as long as it takes.

Edited by: Matt on Feb 7, 2012 4:51 PM

[Lukas_Weigelt]

Anything that involves analysis is unlikely to be amenable to any sensible timing.It's like R&D. It takes as long as it takes.

Telling this managers who think IT is a fancy box of rainbows might help curing my cynism.

I might take twice as long as a standard programmer to write a piece of code.

What is the standard programmer like? 😆

[matt]

According to another thread I started here, a good programmer might be 10x better than a standard programmer - and that's evaluated in the total cost of ownership, not the initial build costs.

Btw - it's not cynicism when it's an accurate reflection of the real world. I did tell one support manager that it'll take me as long to fix the problem as it takes me, and he's perfectly free to find someone else to do it if he thinks that person will be more effective. (with the subtext: now shut up and let me fix it )

I'm sure I've worked on problems where the root cause has turned out to be the initial imbalance between matter and anti-matter during the creation of the universe.

[SuhaSaha]

I did tell one support manager that it'll take me as long to fix the problem as it takes me, and he's perfectly free to find someone else to do it if he thinks that person will be more effective. (with the subtext: now shut up and let me fix it ) 

Ditto ... But trust me in a services company it doesn't go well with your supervisor

[stephenjohannes]

I have a solution, but your consultant would probably stop working for you afterwards. If you really want to micro-manage to that detail then insist they can only do remote work on a laptop issued by your firm that contains a "nanny monitoring" software used for children to track what they are doing.

You can then review the logs and also possibly even turn on audit modle in your SAP system to watch every move and make sure you aren't being overbilled. However you will spend more money monitoring than the 1.5 hours your might have lost.

Personally a more direct approach is the solution. If you feel something is taking too long, you might just ask the person what happened with that issue. Perhaps if they are working remotely their network connection to your system was slow or your systems were slow and made a simple task take much longer.

Keep in mind that unless this is a regular habit by your person you probably don't want the person remotely to invoke the letter of the law, especially if they can charge you more for off hours work and have they given you a pass.

Take care,

Stephen

[samnovice_new]

I have a solution, but your consultant would probably stop working for you afterwards. If you really want to micro-manage to that detail then insist they can only do remote work on a laptop issued by your firm that contains a "nanny monitoring" software used for children to track what they are doing.

You can then review the logs and also possibly even turn on audit modle in your SAP system to watch every move and make sure you aren't being overbilled. However you will spend more money monitoring than the 1.5 hours your might have lost.

Personally a more direct approach is the solution. If you feel something is taking too long, you might just ask the person what happened with that issue. Perhaps if they are working remotely their network connection to your system was slow or your systems were slow and made a simple task take much longer.

Keep in mind that unless this is a regular habit by your person you probably don't want the person remotely to invoke the letter of the law, especially if they can charge you more for off hours work and have they given you a pass.

Take care,

Stephen

Thank you for this useful info, I agree with you, I will have to use direct approach and ask the person to explain why it took so long..

[Lukas_Weigelt]

It's a matter of trust that way...

Better have him come to your location and have him work locally with you or whomever together so you can actually see what he does. Using a timesheet will only result in more time spent because he has to fill out the timesheet... The fact that you could solve a problem faster than the consultant doesn't justify paying less or the like either... switching the consultant might help ;-/

not really a helpful reply and a bit pessimistic, I know... let's see what the others suggest 😛

[samnovice_new]

Thnx for quick reply Lucas!

It's a matter of trust that way...

Better have him come to your location and have him work locally with you or whomever together so you can actually see what he does.

I already had chance to to this and that is ok but sometimes my external SAP consultant must work from another geographic location (online via Interent) because there is no other way..

The fact that you could solve a problem faster than the consultant doesn't justify paying less or the like either... switching the consultant might help ;-/

I know but thing is that I would like to know why someone says that he needs 12 minutes to do a 5 push-ups when average person can do it in 2-3 minutes, if you know what I mean.

not really a helpful reply and a bit pessimistic, I know... let's see what the others suggest :-P

It's ok, I understand because you are realistic but I also hope for some other answers, I hope some of the answers will help me and put smile on my face;))

All the best,

Sam

Edited by: samnovice on Feb 6, 2012 7:28 PM

[Former Member]

Hi Sam,

I have a real solution for your problem. Let me know how much will I get if you like this

3 solutions:

1) If you know how long will it take, tell the consultant that how long he works that didnt bothers you, But payment will be only 1.5 hours(Or what ever it is if you know the estimate) until any config issue from your side.

Generally in India we estimate 2 days and we work extra hours to finish the task, although we paid monthly only

2) Hire 2 consultatns , Tell them who is the fast worker I will give work to them

Dont show one quoatation to other.

3) If you dont have 2 consultatns, hire A SME(Subject matter expert) to verification of Billing. Tell SME how much you can save 20% is yours

Regards

Sas

[former_member42743]

As someone who has been the consultant in these cases let me chime in a bit. You do need to allow for some 'overhead' expenses for a consultant. If you are going to pay for just the time I'm actually logged in to a system forget it. Most people forget that in addition to the actual time to 'do' something, (of course a lot depends on exactly what the 'do' is), there can be research that needs to be done, documentation to be created, status reports to be written, etc.. I've had clients where it took weeks to arrange for me to get into their systems. Network issues, sign-on problems, security issues once in the system.

If I make time in my schedule and log in and find a secuirty issue and have to email someone, and then wait until another day to work, how much should be charged for that. The 5-10 minutes it took to log in and get the security error? Or 30 minutes for the adjustments I had to make to do it another day? Does the consultant have a minimum billing period? Maybe he worked 2.25 hrs but is required to bill in 1 hr increments? Maybe half hour?

The bottom line is, did the consultant do what you needed in a reasonable time frame and were you happy with the results. Feel fortunate that you can find a good, experienced consultant that is even willing to work partime here and there for you. (I know that sounds bad!) Many of the really good ones don't want to be bothered with an hour here and an hour there. They can get fulltime work and if all you're getting from a client is one or two hours a week, the overhead of tracking, reporting and invoicing is hardly worth it. It usually needs to be something I have a personal interest in doing and not just for the money. I.e. a cool new functionality or something I don't get to normally work with a lot.

As stated earlier. It comes down to trust.

FF