Giving Wrong Answers

[Former Member]

All ,

Lately I am seeing lot of advice(s) which is not true or noting to do with the question or sometimes even destroy the system. I did notice this in Netweaver (Basis) forums , might be true for other forums as well.

In my opinion, If we don’t know the answer, don’t try to answer and watch the answers to learn rather giving incorrect advices. It might happen some times but giving incorrect replies most of the time is not advisable and Moderators should warn. I would like to see others opinion on this

Thanks

Prince Jose

[Former Member]

On the flip side to restricting the 'incorrect' answers ... has to be the technical ability / knowledge of the person that is raising the question.

People have to keep in mind that any (.. ok, most) responses given on here are for advice only from people with greater experience or experience of particular issues on how to resolve issues (or at least find the cause).

Reponses and potential resolutions must be regarded as exactly that and NOT the 'set in stone' definitive problem fixes.

People must be able to look at the response and understand what they are being told. If not, then they should not be actioning anything!

[ChrisSolomon]

This thread....and a recent Wired magazine article got me thinking last night....I am actually VERY surprised that our forums are not plagued with "griefers". It would be quite easy. They could do some real world damage in fact. Wonder why this hasnt' happened. NOT that I miss it, trust me! Griefers are the bane of the internet in my opinion...even below "script kiddies" in my books.

[pokrakam]

Not heard of them, had to wiki that term

I think we already have an equivalent. It may be unintentional, but in their eagerness for points people forget that bad advice can actually be harmful.

[NathanGenez]

I agree about the points. People are quick to offer any reply at all just to garner a few +2s or +6s.

[Former Member]

Well,

I think it's the responsability of the guy asking the question to apply one of the answers suggested on the forum.

If someone applies the wrong solution without understanding anything about it and breaks his sytem, well, I will not even be sorry for him.

I will only suggest him to change his job and not work anymore in SAP administration.

You need to be responsible and sensible in this job.

The answers on a forum are worth what they are paid for...

Regards,

Olivier

[Former Member]

As we know the root cause of the issue is Point System. I used to be a strong advocate for point system but now I feel SDN forum will be much better without point.

I think if there is no point, people won't answer for already asked questions, once poster doesn’t see the reply then he/she start using SEARCH functionality!!

Thanks

Prince Jose

[Former Member]

Prince:

That's true...But as discussed so many time before...Points System are not going to be taken out...We must find another way to fight against Point Hunters...

Greetings,

Blag.

[Former Member]

>We must find another way to fight against Point Hunters...

What about Law Enforcement ?

When education dose not work anymore, you have to use repression...

And, even if this is Coffee Corner, I'm not really joking !

Regards,

Olivier

[Former Member]

When education dose not work anymore, you have to use repression...

Man...That sound a little bit hard -:) What we do right now is to delete accounts from Point Hunters that uses multiple accounts...If we were to delete every user that ask for points or reply with hundred of link we should get out of people in a few days...

I know that's not exactly what you're talking about...But I wanted to mention it anyway -;)

So, tell me...What kind of repression or Law enforcement would you use???

Greetings,

Blag.

[Former Member]

Hi Alvaro,

What I mean about "Law enforcement" is what I see in all well kept Internet forums.

A thread is immediately locked if it is out of subject or break the rules.

If someone breaks the rules several times, he is first warned and then banned for several days. If he still does not understand, his user is deleted.

This works and these forums are the most friendly ones and the *most interesting" ones. They are full of real experts...

An exemple of a rule in an aviation forum that I like a lot. It is stricly forbidden to talk about politics and a thread is immediately locked if the rule is broken. Why : because the forum owner saw from experience that talking politics between aviation fans led every time to flame wars.

>If we were to delete every user that ask for points or reply with hundred of >link we should get out of people in a few days...

Users should not be deleted, the thread should be locked or deleted.

So people will learn it is not worthy to break the rules.

Regards,

Olivier

[Former Member]

Hi Oliver

Locking threads only hurts the person who asked the question and received 5 identical answers, each spelled a little differently.

Personally, I give points to the first person with a particular answer.

I was very offended the other day while reading Q&A's - I found a GREAT answer, it solved a problem I didn't even know we had. Since it wasn't my question, I posted a "Thank You" and the guy says: give me points not thank you's.

Down with the Point Hunters!!

ALthea

[jurjen_heeck]

> I was very offended the other day while reading Q&A's - I found a GREAT answer, it solved a problem I didn't even know we had. Since it wasn't my question, I posted a "Thank You" and the guy says: give me points not thank you's.

That is offensive. It also discourages people from posting polite thank you's, which in it's turn takes away the humane incentive for helping people......

> Down with the Point Hunters!!

Couldn't agree more.

[Former Member]

Hi,

I prefer a lot to get a sincere "thank you" than points...

Down with the points hunters !

Olivier

[Bob_McGlynn]

Hi,

When someone gives a wrong answer, it may not be right to assume that they are doing so maliciously. It is possible they have out-of-date information or just don't know enough to give the best answer. The most dangerous fools are those with a little bit of knowledge.

And, you must admit, that there are plenty of examples (politics, finance, child-rearing) when even the experts are wrong.

These forums are a place where we can collectively find better answers. We are fortunate that we don't have to solely rely on a "point gatherer" for our information.

Bob

[pokrakam]

When someone gives a wrong answer, it may not be right to assume that they are doing so maliciously. It is possible they have out-of-date information or just don't know enough to give the best answer. The most dangerous fools are those with a little bit of knowledge.

Most of the time it's not malicious, however folks will post any old vaguely relevant info in the hope that it answers the question and it nets them some points. I believe they are genuinely trying to be helpful, but ultimately bad advice is worse than no advice and points encourage the former

[Former Member]

> Olivier CHRETIEN wrote:

> I prefer a lot to get a sincere "thank you" than points...

>

> Down with the points hunters !

>

> Olivier

Hi Olivier,

Being French you might prefer wine, but this thread might interest you anyway:

A usefull answer confirmed by a knowledgable person earns two beers...!

And an incorrect (and corrected!) answer (mine) costs a round of beers for having to be corrected...

I say, down with the points hunters and "Ein Prosit!" to a strict beer system

Cheers!

Julius

[Bob_McGlynn]

Julius,

Thanks for sharing that thread. A great example of how people can really learn through these exchanges on the forum.

Sure, you have to have enough people on each forum with:

History - to be familiar with similar threads in the recent past

Respect - to be open to different approaches or new ways of looking at other ideas.

Good will - Happy to help and even share a beer.

and to Participate - the "point-grabbers" fade away if there is active participation on the forums. (Which is a challenge since we all have jobs to do!)

Bob

[Former Member]

A side affect might be that a lot of folks hanging around the railway stations will in future be hanging around WiFi "hotspots" with laptops.

Damned if you do, and damned if you don't... I think a strong, level-headed and good natured moderator presence helps in both (all) cases. I try my best.

Regardless of that, SDN is a great resource for me (including being corrected or challenged) and I try to put something back into it.

A nice weekend to all,

Julius

[Former Member]

Hi Julius,

Nice Thread. The problem with Beer or Wine is that it can only be virtual on the internet !

Or... We should get all together for an annual meeting (Oktober Fest..) to pay and get paid all the year long beers.

It just mey be difficult to explaine to our employers that it is a professional meeting !

Greetings,

Olivier

[Former Member]

We could invite one of the HR travel expense experts to join as well, and try to get him / her drunk enough to explain how the customizing works...

Cheers,

Julius

[matt]

I've worked on the T&E module. Feel free to ply me with beer.

matt

[Former Member]

Another round of beers to pay in the "wo sich Fuchs und Hase gute Nacht sagen"-forum

PS: "wo sich Fuchs und Hase gute Nacht sagen" is a German expression for "a place where foxes and rabbits say good night to each other" => far away place.

[matt]

>

> "wo sich Fuchs und Hase gute Nacht sagen

"In the middle of nowhere".

[Former Member]

>

> Another round of beers to pay in the "wo sich Fuchs und Hase gute Nacht sagen"-forum  
> 
> 
> 
> PS: "wo sich Fuchs und Hase gute Nacht sagen" is a German expression for "a place where foxes and rabbits say good night to each other" => far away place.

That was like a bed time never ending story

[Former Member]

I have seen this recently in CRM forums where some one has been wrongly advising others that CRM2007 does not allow portal integration.

Since his posts also have something like "reward points please" , I guess amassing points is one of the major reasons that people try to give some advice irrespective of whether they know or not.

What kills me is that the same question gets asked several times, and the same guy gives the exact same wrong answer to each question. Can't the folk's posing the questions do a search?

[ThomasZloch]

>Can't the folk's posing the questions do a search?

One of the great mysteries of SDN...it has been discussed here a lot, but I will never understand this. If I feel grumpy enough I will post some reminder to use the search function, but most of the time I just try to filter the stuff out, mentally. But every darn question - no matter how repetitive, vague or even rude - will get at least three almost identical and/or wrong cut & paste type answers by folks whose motivation I can only wonder about.

[Former Member]

I have also seen this, except I have not noticed any particular increase in it lately.

I agree with Jurjen: when the question displays an understanding of the topic and the problem (should there be one), then the quality of the answers are better and the type of answers Prince referred to seem to steer well clear of them.

The opposite case is, in my opinion from observing this, also directly proportionate to the quality of the question: When somebody with a posts : questions ratio < 3 : 1 (at least a thank you and average of 1 follow-up is fair to assume...) opens an obscure question and < 20% of their questions are resolved, then this sort of answer appears more often.

Personally, I would support some rules (also technically implemented) to have some watch on the ratios and %'s mentioned above (e.g. to be able to ask more than 10 obscure questions, the ID first need to have provided some good answers and followed up on previous questions). That would curb the number of questions, "force" searching first and increase the quality of the question which does make it into SDN... I think it would be good for SDN and make my life as a hobby-moderator a bit easier (I have discovered that making judgement calls in internet forums is not easy).

Having said that, I have contributed to threads where folks have pointed out to me that my answer is incomplete, incorrect or even suffering from R/2 mentality I am very thankfull for them and the team effort!

Cheers,

Julius

[jurjen_heeck]

Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately a lot of questions are asked in such a bad or incomplete way that it is impossible to answer them without making assumptions.

I think that we cannot weed out the incorrect answers before we've found a way to get the questions up to a certain standard.

And that may be wishfull thinking....

[Former Member]

Hi Jurjen,

I disagree with you in this. If we dont understand its better not answer or can ask for more details. I think thats better than providing wrong answers. Once of the post I have seen someone asking to run some sql statements at DB level which is no way connected to the question ..

Thanks

Prince Jose

[Former Member]

> Once of the post I have seen someone asking to run some sql statements at DB level which is no way connected to the question ..

I think that happens quite often when the question starts with "What is the table for...." even if there is no obvious "bad advise" in any of the answers...

Cheers,

Julius

[Former Member]

It wasn't a " SELECT " statement though, and somebody asked like whether he know what he/she suggesting ..

I agree with your suggestion of ratio. If worked out its a good idea .

Thanks

Jose

[Former Member]

Hi Prince,

Actually, it was Jurjen's answer about improving the quality of the question to reduce the strange answers and resulting misdirected discussion which brought back memories of thoughts about # of posts : questions : points : follow-up ratios as being the best solution...

Of course, I might be wrong to commit myself to that...

I agree that it is a potentially big problem if someone actually blindly follows bad advise when lots of it is available, without someone stepping in to say "Sorry, that's a bad idea.."!

Cheers,

Julius