Future of SAP Certification and SAP Certified Professionals

[sbhutani1]

Dear SDNers,

I am posting this forum to invite all the SAP Professionals specially SAP Certified Professionals to discuss the future of SAP Certification and SAP Certified Professionals.

Today i was browsing the forum discussions on SDN and i found one forum in which there was a link pointing to a website for SAP certification questions and when i went on that site, i shocked to see that there are more than 100 SAP certification questions published on the internet.

I again shocked to know that these kinds of discussions are still available on SDN and SAP has not taken any action against that website who has published these questions.

I just want to discuss if the SAP certification questions will be easily available on the internet then what will be the value of that certification and what will be the value of certified professionals.

I request to all of the SDNers and specially SAP Certified Professionals to take this discussion further towards a preventive action taken by SAP to stop these kinds of offences and to improve the certification process.

If you have any kind of suggestions for improving the certification process then you are most welcome in this thread.

Thanks & Regards

Sumit Bhutani

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

All

Henrique, agreeing with you on "group-protection purposes" perspective

After all, almost every XI expert today started by posting queries on SDN

But all that is being emphasized is that queries should have some level/class

By the way, a forum is defined as "<b><i><u> A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation</u></i></b>."

Using harsh words will be of little use

And of course, silence of SDN moderators on this issue is baffling!

Regards

[Former Member]

Hello All

First of all I would thank Sumit for raising this issue

I would request you all to consider following:

A. Regarding Certifications:

1. The certification examination consists of multiple-choice based objective type questions

I have observed that many people who are new to SAP XI take 15 days off from work, and prepare from various sources like SAP material, PDFs, web-sites etc to appear for certification

And voila! These people easily pass certification

2. Regarding criteria for certification, SAP is very clear:

i. Either have two years of relevant experience, or

ii. Attend SAP courses or Tech-ed

Thus getting certification is not a big deal if you work in a large organization where they are ready to sent you for training

However, the important point here is quality of SAP XI professionals:

Please don’t take me in wrong way, but I believe that the competition at getting more points at SDN-forums is spoiling the whole thing

Just go through the questions asked at this forum:

1. <i>…new to SAP XI, Can you pass some info regarding SAP XI…</i>

After some days:

<i>… could you please tell … the use of Container in advanced UDF ?? Preferrably with examples …

… new to Proxy ... Could any one provide some examples on it.

…have some confusion in header mapping ....

can u explain … details what is header mapping with examples.

… Can someone post … a link/ blog about BPM and various things … can do in BPM like splitting messages, Exceptional Handling and creating alerts..

… just starting up with java mapping. Can you anyone give java mapping code for simple scenario with proper documentation on how to build java mapping proxy program?

Helpful replies will be rewarded with points….</i>

And after one month:

1.

<i> … can anyone send the XI certification material to this id: …</i>

2.

<i>… would like to go for certification on this month. please guide …

…have done some example scenarios.

…don't where .. have to start and what are materials?

certification question and all.

please do send to…</i>

Solution was provided:

<i>Hi,

some sample questions … will forward.

Hope these will help for you certification

…</i>

And next others too followed:

<i>can u plz send the sample qstns..</i>

<i>Can you please share … the questions that were asked. … relatively new to exchange and plan to take up certification sometime.</i>

At least 10 more requests followed

3.

And once certified person gets on-to some real project following happens:

<i>… one message is coming from xi, … need to send to r/3 through proxy. same message …need to send back to xi through another proxy.

can anybody paste the sample code of the client proxy and server proxy.

answer will be rewarded</i>

hellow can any body send java mapping screen shots

Like Barry Neaves, I am too in XI for around two years and have not got certification

The reason is that if you are certified than it should mean two things:

1. You are an expert – guru in making

2. Everyone around you who is certified is also the same

I feel that point 2 above – i.e. every certified XI professional should be an XI expert is not all true

Further, I have also observed that there is a huge rat-race among ABAP consultants to some how get an XI server and then post elementary questions on SDN about XI, understand some scenarios and get certified

In fact, I was once horrified when a guy called me up saying he attended Tech-ed and got XI certification – but wanted me to help him with some basic scenarios

He did not know what Integration builder was!

B. Regarding quality of questions on SDN:

I guess many experts in XI today started same way – by posting queries on SDN, but their should be some level/class of questions

For example, if you are stuck in installation phase or cannot view adapters in ID or are unable to import some SWC etc its OK asking for help

But simply posting your queries like asking for scenarios on proxy, mapping, UDF, BPM is incorrect

Further if you expect whole code all together then this wrong

e.g.

<i> … need to write an user defined function to …

…

Please send … the code</i>

In this particular case, whole code for this purpose was sent

The guy replied back:

<i>Thank you very much.</i>

<i>But the last line is not working because …. Please solve this one.</i>

Again simple modification to ready-made code was provided and 10 points gained

All, please don’t take this in wrong way

But what all this actually shows is, if you call yourself an XI consultant then you need not have any knowledge of it

Just post question on SDN forum and you will have answers right away which you can then provide to clients as your own

C. Regarding Suggestions:

I request you all to please consider following in future:

1. Do not directly give codes/steps etc

Just direct people to resources

Micheal does this way many times and its good

2. Answer only those questions where people are stuck in hard-core technical/BASIS steps

3. At any cost avoid giving steps for simple BPM scenario etc – people who know XI basics know where to find them

4. If some one says its urgent or client needs it, don’t answer question at all

5. I understand that it looks good on if you stand among top on SDN forum

But at same time, this impulse to get more points is short-sighted and has created a vicious cycle which will ultimately lead to dropping in quality of XI consultancy – as a result quality of XI implementations’ will go down

6. Finally, SDN is not vending machine, it is meant to be place for intellectual discussion regarding new developments/features/modifications etc

Regarding certification, I offer following suggestion:

1. SAP should abandon existing certification process all together and start a new one

2. Only the implementation knowledge should be tested

3. Instead of criteria being two years of SAP experience, the criteria can be something like two white-papers etc

4. Multiple-choice based questions are a strict no-no

I hope all good and worth-their-salt XI consultants would take this in right spirit and also that SDN moderators/ SAP-people would take note of this

Regards

Aqua

[henrique_pinto]

Well,

that is more a philosophical question.

I'm of the opinion that knowledge should never be ommited, in the sense that if someone asks something and you know the answer, you should provide it. I'm against any hiding of knowledge in the sense of preventing the subject to be spreadly known (which is, in my opinion, the utopian ideal scenario) for group-protection purposes (on the sense that the holder of the knowledge holds more power on the society/community).

On the other hand, if the person asks a stupid question which a quick search could answer, I'm also on the opinion that harsh words should be allowed. 😄 Usually, a RTFM! in other tech forums has been proved to be really educational in terms of forum users' behavior.

In the end, in every society, you do require moderation (in the presence of the law, which establishes the limits; the judiciary power, which judges who have surpassed which limits; and the punitive forces), since not all people will always behave as expected by the society in subject, even more in a society with new elements every day (such as SDN). If you don't have law/judiciary/punitive elements in the moderation of that society, it will tend to anarchy.

Regards,

Henrique.

[sbhutani1]

Hi All,

I just want to share one more trend which is very much popular in points hungry peoples.

some users have created 4-5 sdn ID of their own, from one user id they post a question on sdn and from other id they just answer it, after that you can imagine to which bucket those 10 points goes.

Actually my purpose of saying this is not to hurt any SDN contributor, but it is true.

For getting points on sdn they don't hesitate to do these kinds of offencive acts like sharing certification questions or sharing certification materials on the internet.

You know why they do so, because they have full confidence on the SDN Moderators.

Regards

Sumit Bhutani

[henrique_pinto]

Ok, my 2 cents for this discussion.

There are mainly two points here:

1. Even though I fully agree that SAP certification methods are outdated and they should be reviewed since they are creating a really critical gap between the really experienced people and the bookworms, I do not think that is to be discussed here. I mean, not in XI forum anyway. That is a discussion to be taken to community level forums. And the point is that they have already been discussed there, and no action followed...

2. the real problem we should address here, in XI forum and all other SDN tech forums as well, is about the problem of people who come ask for certification material and get answers! The topic shouldn't even be allowed to be created, and even less to get answers. What SDN forums lack, and lack bad, is a full-time active moderation. I mean, there is no moderation at all. These same topics are there to be searched and viewed at any time, and SAP itself (by the means of SDN admins and moderators) doesn't give a damn about them. That is what is really f***** up, in the forums point of view.

Sorry for the harsh words,

Henrique.

[Former Member]

Juz wanna add to bhavesh thread Itz not only about the quality / eligibility criteria of a consultant that needs to be questioned but consider how the Exam is structured. I wouldn't say itz easy but itz neigther too tough. Multiple choice Questions and Answers we ain't still in our school dayz please. I have seen guyz who couldn't make it 1st attempt but easily passed out in second as they knew what to expect. This structure is being followed for quite a time now doesn't it need to be changed? May be SAP in a race to capture the market has overlooked some of the concerns. Hope i am not shooting the gun.

Exam has to be structure more on real tym scenarios / simulating them or can be divided into 2 parts first being multiple choice other being as said real tym scenarios. Similar to that of MCSE. There has to be emphasis that though you can take the course if you wish but getting through it should be tougher.That can only be the way to ensure every issue is addressed.

Cheers,

<b>*RAJ*</b>

[sbhutani1]

I am very much agree with your comments, even one of my friend has given his certification and he has passed that too but the strange thing was he has neither attended any XI training nor has even seen the XI screen before the certification, still he was able to pass that certification.

Now you can understand that how easy it is to pass the certification for the person who is like a bookworm.

Yes, exams has to be structured more on real time scenarios not only based on the certification material. Even it would be better if SAP can change a process in this way like every participant must go under a practicle examination to prove his/her capability in understanding the scenario and providing the solution architecture and implementation.

If you have any comments or suggestions on how SAP can improve the certification process then you are most welcome in this thread.

Regards

Sumit Bhutani

[Former Member]

I am going to contribute to this discussion although I am not an SAP Certified Professional... Don't hold that against me!

I find it very disturbing the number of questions relating to the request of the certification material and questions. I can't believe that anyone that has read the training manuals can then sit the Certification and pass.

I have been using XI for 2 1/2 years and still would not feel comfortable sitting this examination. But I don't like exams, fullstop! If it's offered, I guess I would have to take it, but only after completing the other courses I have not done!

There have even been posts asking for resume experience so people can apply for jobs pretending they are experienced - another worrying trend.

Any employer that takes on people with fake experience deserve the employees they get, however this then damages the chances of those with true experience.

I Feel I am fortunate to have a Consultancy Role doing what I enjoy - without the Certification...

What I find amusing is that people think if they get certification, they will get a well paid job... The more saturated the market gets with XI developers, the wage will drop to accomdate this!

[former_member431549]

I have passed both XI developer and technical certification exams, and am troubled by the trend. I took the classes seriously, studied materials every evening during the preparation class and also had practical experience when I went to take the exams. I think I saw the same post you are talking about and was shocked.

There were people attending the classes that you would hear on a mobile phone just waiting to finish the class so they could bill themselves out as XI experts the following week.

IMO, passing the exam has very little to do with being able to do the job. But it may get you in the door. There will always be work for those of us that really know what we are doing, going behind the people that just passed the cert exam last month.

[Former Member]

Yes, certification is not the most important, the knowledge is

It's only a market question, I think. Because the certification says you are able to do the basic things, not you're a master of universe (although the exams are very hard to pass). SAP courses are extremely expensive (here in Brazil), and the quality is very poor (I'm talking about NetWeaver and technology courses ). To me, if some person says "I'm a SAP certified professional" means only that he (or his company) spends a lot of money to have a questionable result. The question is cleared after a good conversation about the course he did and the experience he have working in projects.

I'm certified, passed the exam only reading the manuals (yes! it is really really possible if you study hard) with very little practical experience and no question copied from any sites - I hate this practice. Now I am learning many many things by the SDNers help and by myself. And going to keep learning , I have very much things to learn!

regards!

roberti

[Former Member]

Hi ,

I am a certified professional as well ...abab that is ..But I have been working in XI since last 2 year ...In my view certification does help you to get a break to some extent however ..once you are on project you are pretty much on your own..

I should say ..it is the sdn which has helped more then anything.

Certification is expensive .. alarming however is... during SAP teched ...large number of company sponsored people go for certifiaction...I guess it's band wagon effect...

I was in xi by chance ...I was working as an abaper ...then got a chance to work in xi.

bottom line is nothing can replace experience...

[sbhutani1]

Hi,

Not only the certification questions, but also the certification material is available on the Internet. If the trend will goes like this then there is no meaning for certification.

As per my opinion, SAP must think about it seriously and the process to certify any person should be changed. It must not only be based on passing the certification exam but also there must be some process by which SAP can monitor the actual experience of the certified person.

As i remember when i have passed my certification there was a message appeared on the screen that "You have qualified for the certification and certificate will be provided to you after judging your implementation knowledge" or something like this in which there was said you have only qualified for certification but after that i have got my certificate without being interviewed or any kind of interaction between me and SAP.

As the competition is very high in the market and deserving professionals are not getting the benefit because of this process.

Now we have an opportunity to do some contribution towards changing the process so the next generation of SAP professionals will get the benefit of this.

So please contribute some thoughts on how the certification process can be improved so that only the experienced and deserving professionals can take benefit from this.

Regards

Sumit Bhutani

[bhavesh_kantilal]

Interesting thread.

Well, the fact is there are double standards from SAP when it comes to its certifications.

Wanna know what I am saying, well read this thread ( my reply ) on my Certificate Experience or should I say Non Experience,

The fact is, when SAP provides the training you take the certification without any experience. The course is "supposed" to be so good that people attending it can take up the certifications!

Last year, my application was rejected becuase I did not have 2 years of SAP experience, but, at the same time, I was honored by SDN for being among the top 3 contributors in XI

There needs to be serious revamping that needs to be done is all I can say, and no Double Standards please.

Regards

Bhavesh