FAQ for Forums

[Former Member]

Hi friends,

I am sure many of us agree with this :

Over and over the same questions are asked, and our very "energetic" SDN'ers respond to it, but surely there comes a time when you say "Oh for God's sake, please do a search and you will find an answer".

Inspite of a sticky post, which clearly says "Read before you post" , we see many posts of the same kind. It is like parking right in front of a "Do Not Park" sign.

Many posts with "Urgent" in the subject. Brian McKellar has so many times mentioned in the BSP Forum , if it is really so urgent use the service.sap.com and get your answers.

Clearly we need some kind of education where we make other SDN'ers aware of these basic points and therefore appreciate SDN much better.

Just add your points to this thread, how we can make the forums a better place to hang out !

My 2 cents:

a) There should be a blog from time-to-time, a forum thread from time-to-time (all should be eye-catching) to just let them know "How to make SDN work for you ?"

b) Some kind of consolidation mechanism for FAQ, where you can actually specify the type of question using one of the Checkboxes/Dropdown and based on these prepare a FAQ.

c) Before the user asks a question, just give him a reference - "Have you checked these posts and do you find it useful? " If he does, he can just say "Yes I found it useful"

Regards,

Subramanian V.

[eddy_declercq · Accepted solution]

Hi,

As far as education goes, I've been ellaborating on things in this web log /people/eddy.declercq/blog/2006/07/21/from-the-grumpy-old-man-sdn-kindergarten and there are off course the rules of engagement. Some people are still not willing to comply to things though.

Concerning the FAQ, I've made a suggestion in /people/eddy.declercq/blog/2006/02/20/supercalifragilisticexpialidelicious

How far does one need to go to prevent people from doing things?

Eddy

PS.

Put yourself on the SDN world map (http://sdn.idizaai.be/sdn_world/sdn_world.html) and earn 25 points.

Spread the wor(l)d!

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

I thinking putting a blog for forums is not serving adequate justice, for the fact probably,

a) Not many of the forum users are reading blogs

b) They read, but forget

c) They just do not wish to follow the rules

I will like to be a little optimistic and think (a) is the reason and take a step forward.

Having said that, I think you have done a wonderful job of posting those weblogs, perhaps we just need to channel it better , fine tune it a little more.

Once again, I appreciate your comments.

Regards,

Subramanian V.

[eddy_declercq · Accepted solution]

Hi,

I can agree that blogs aren't necessary read by forum posters. But the rules of engagements are sticky posts in the forums themselves and even then people don't want to/can't follow the rules.

Eddy

[suresh_datti · Accepted solution]

How about URGENT & NEWBIE Categories for each forum?

~Suresh

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Well first and foremost - we are all newbie's therefore no need for those forums.

As for Urgent - well we have a forum for that <a href="http://service.sap.com">here</a>

Now as for what to do to get people to follow the rules, well that's a funny thing with a virtual community. You have those who come to make it a community (then search for ways to make sure everyone adheres to that community standard), those who just stop in to take a look and those who come to ask a question and then run.

We've tried several ways to make those not following by the "rules" to see the "light" but now I'm beginning to wonder - do we need to continue to try and do this? We have an amazingly strong community here already what difference does it make if a small percentage of the people don't play by the same rules as the others? Is it worth the time and effort to work out multiple solutions and fine tuning to get them to do it "our" way? Or would our time be better spent working on things to make what we have already better for US not for them?

So my question to all of you - how can and of course what can we make better here on SDN/BPX for you to get the information you need faster?

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

I agree with you Craig but there are some answers only SDN can provide.

a) Would our time be better spent working on things to make what we have already better for US not for them?

I believe the answer lies in is US bigger than THEM. If so is the case, then we can. And this check has to be made repeatedly because while concentrating on US, you will find suddenly THEM are getting bigger.

SDN administrators would have the statistics on how many users actually use SDN/SDN Forums well. Overall(again from my perspective), I have a feeling that questions are repeated, therefore lets have a FAQ(there is one for ABAP) for each forum. The regular contributors can add to these document and a moderator can review/evaluate it, from time to time.

<i>You have those who come to make it a community (then search for ways to make sure everyone adheres to that community standard), those who just stop in to take a look and those who come to ask a question and then run.</i>

Again a very valid point however, you will be in a better position to have these statistics from contribution view point. As we have heard and been told there are close to 500,000 SDN members but any given point of time, I have not seen more than 800 users at SDN. Then again, this would not be the only point to indicate that contributors are very less.

I believe the aim should be to achieve better content(I think SDN has done a great job in those aspects), learn more and use SDN to our advantage.

I agree with Craig's view point on newbie and urgent forums. However, there can be some kind of formula that suggests after so many posts/other factors a newbie becomes an experienced user. Then again, we are including bias, since many would want experienced users to respond and not newbies to respond. Having said that, lets not dismiss the idea right away, but the idea is to have a discussion.

Regards,

Subramanian V.

[marilyn_pratt · Accepted solution]

Hi Subramanian and Eddy,

I’ve been drafting this answer for the last few hours actually, and in the interim the conversation has further and further evolved with more suggestions from us all.

What side-tracked me was a fascination with what “we” are doing here on SDN/BPX and by “we” I mean the community.

I was over “there” in the blogsphere looking at all the blogging and collaboration and code sharing and collective genius of the Abapers working on the SAPlink project and thinking how amazingly creative and fabulous this community can be. While I type this, really great conversation is going on around the use of <a href="/people/thomas.jung/blog/2006/09/20/saplink-and-my-first-real-community-project

See how the problem of codeshare and collaborative publishing was resolved by a number of enterprising and collaborative souls? Kudos to Ed, Dan, Rich, Thomas, Leonardo and others who are just all full of solutions and creative improvements to "our" community.

So...let’s see if we can generate some of the same spirit in the context of the FAQs.

Eddy had an excellent idea in his blog post a while back concerning FAQs and perhaps now is the time and place to have them implemented.

Subramanian speaks of a consolidation mechanism for a FAQ and again, there are many thoughts given as to how best achieve a collaborative FAQ. The one in the ABAP space, <a href="https://www.sdn.sap.comhttp://www.sdn.sap.comhttp://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/sdn/developerareas/abap?rid=/library/uuid/840ad679-0601-0010-cd8e-9989fd650822">abap FAQ</a> or in the XI space, <a href="/people/michal.krawczyk2/blog/2005/06/28/xipi-faq-frequently-asked-questions FAQ</a> are two different models, and neither fully collaborative efforts.

One, relies on the content owner of the ABAP pages to implement and publish changes to the web content repository of SDN and post the page, the other requires the good will of a single contributor (in this case the owner of the XI blog, Michal)

Mark Finnern has been dreaming up an idea of a FAQ collaboration realized through wiki and it entails a great deal of collaborative community cooperation and effort.

It also entails all the quality issues that you raise Subramanian, concerning the forums. But hopefully we can use the structure of the forum categories to generate a similar number of FAQs where the community can gather links to the best and most frequent and valuable questions and answers, be they occurring in forums, blogs, articles, or now code samples.

One must believe in the ultimate good will and quality assurance of the community, but of course we are then opening up an additional delivery mechanism which needs its own set of rules, helps, guidelines and governance. It is with much excitement and ....fear that I approach this task.

Perhaps we should engage in hammering out the rules of engagement before we embark on the use of the wiki. We should create not only a template demonstrating use, but also be thinking of how the “us” you speak of can best employ this collaborative wiki FAQ and govern it.

I already have some "buy-in" from community members. It would be really awesome to start meeting and engaging in pushing this project forward.

[suresh_datti · Accepted solution]

>>Well first and foremost - we are all newbie's therefore no need for those forums..

Craig: I agree there is no need for those forums.. I was just kidding.. but I will have to disagree with the first part of your above statement..

we are all newbies.. at some point of time but certainly not for ever.. may be Beginner would have been the right word in this context..

Coming back to the forums issues, I think what bothers many is the very basic questions some members post ( more so on the ABAP Forum), answers for which they could have got with an F1 or a few clicks on help.sap.com or a forum search here on SDN.. but then we cannot prevent anyone from posting such questions.. One good thing that I see from such posts is, it gives the other beginners a chance to start contributing.. which in the long run serves the very purpose of SDN.. hey, the non-beginners could always ignore such posts & look out for the more challenging ones.. there are still quite a few 'threads with no replies' in all the forums...

Marilyn: thanks for the update on Mark's efforts..

~Suresh

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

If I may give my humble opinion on this, I think threads asking basic questions which could easily be found with a search are unavoidable -- either because the user could not find what he/she needed with the search function (and let's face it, SND's search isn't exactly up there with Google in terms of flexibility), or because the user simply did not know about the search function.

However, one thing I think could be done to improve these forums are locking of threads. As you know, there are many threads asking about illegal training materials, or that materials be sent to so-and-so email address. The moderators over at the BW forums have been doing a stellar job at removing the emails from those posts (replacing them with a <removed by SDN moderator>). I think it's a great idea, but they leave the thread open, which means people keep posting more emails in the same thread, and the moderator removes these new emails, and people posts new emails... there are threads like these over 50-pages long, and in my humble opinion I think this problem is easily solved: the moderator explains why the situation is not allowed, and then locks the thread. This method is used in many forums around the internet, and is often successful in curbing those kinds of threads.

[marilyn_pratt · Accepted solution]

Great idea and easily implemented by those that have the authorization to lock.

Thanks!

Marilyn

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Does it matter if the US is bigger or smaller? The idea is not that the "them" gets bigger but the "US" brings more of them along.

Have you heard of the "play it forward" thought? You do something nice for something who in return does something nice for 3 people (made a movie about it) who in turn do something nice for 3 people each, so on and so forth. The same principle is applied to online communities and leading by example. Therefore, as Marilyn points out a few posts prior to this one SDN is going to launch a Wiki and that Wiki will help to create FAQ's and other items to try and help eliminate some of the repeated questions. However, does that mean that everyone will search yet one more place for the answer before simply posting? No it does not, or forums have undergone multiple server upgrades because of the huge amount of activity (800 you say? try at least 800 every few minutes and not always the same 800)

The aim of SDN/BPX and you nailed it on the head is to provide the best possible content and quality possible. Therefore we continue to strive for that, does the posting and I've been looking at the stats of a small percentage of users about a small percentage of repeated questions indicate a problem? At the moment I would say no it does not, could it escalate, yes it could is there ways to help prevent it - yes there are.

In the past especially in the BSP forum we saw repeated questions, in turn someone would write a weblog and post it - once the weblog was written answering some of these "standard" questions it became the mission of all the top contributors of that forum to respond very quickly to any new post with not only the link to the new weblog but also a FREINDLY (I mean that) reminder to search first as there is a lot of content on SDN that they might have missed if they did not search more than the last 90 days.

As for the status of a poster, well our point system is a good indicator of someone's experience for different areas and I would easily say Thomas Jung is an expert or that Rich Heilman is an expert in ABAP but even though Rich has more points Horst Keller is in my opinion an expert in ABAP as well. However, I don't think anyone of these people would call themselves an expert. The art of learning is neverending and whether you are an expert or a beginner you have something of value to add be it a different point of view or different prespective.

I for one will take what someone like Rich says to heart more than John Smith (just made that name up) not because of his points or what he "knows" but because of his dedication and activities in the community. He's an active member of our community and therefore he has a voice to be listened to just as each of you particpating in this thread do. Will Rich be one of the first people I email if I have a question about ABAP - of course I know who he is and I trust him to give me the best possible answer (I thought this back when he had less points than me too grin)

So what have we gained so far in this discussion?

a) SDN has a lot of users who are not playing the same we are and most times they are 1-offs, fly in ask take and leave

b) SDN has a strong sense of community as a whole and lots of great people

c) We need more FAQ's to try to help people

Results

a) major bummer but expected as in every community

b) most excellent

c) hopefully by the end of this year

So where do we go from here?

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Removal of email Ids goes along with a polite warning / request to refrain from such activities. The expectation is that someone who may arrive at the thread would read this message and comply. The thread is open if someone wants to comment, or needs more details about 'Why was this done'. If 'un'common sense prevails then (I think) it makes sense to lock the thread…just trying not to be 'rude', and so far it is working well. I have noticed quite a positive change in the BI forum behaviour since I started…and that's the idea: Keep to forums clean and healthy without discouraging participation or starting an argument, but surely suggestions are welcome

[marilyn_pratt · Accepted solution]

As always, Bhanu exhibts wisdom (which is always a better alternative to brute force). Since Bhanu is a good judge of what is undeniably working well in the BI space, we can use her example of positive reinforcement and encouraging good behavior in other forums. Locking would be appropriate when gentle reminders fail

Marilyn

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Just a recap, Marilyn is Wisdom, Bhanu is grace and determination and me - I'm the brute force

This is kind of a spin off topic but I did want to repeat again any instances of this type of behaviour should be reported immediately to the moderators or to SDN via the "contact us" area.

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

From the plethora of content/discussion/viewpoints that have been poured in the past few days, if I wait for a few more days, I will just be lost.

I agree with many of the points mentioned. However, I would just like to add a point here :

a) We are not trying to <i>eliminate</i> repeated posts, the aim is to minimize repeated posts which have been asked the maximum times. That is what FAQ stands for Frequently Asked Questions.

b) To lock or keep it open is a moderator's decision but my point is to facilitate users with FAQ.

I will not put my 2cents for point-based system for two reasons :

1) I agree it is a reasonable benchmark for the time-being.

2) We will stick to the subject - <b>FAQ for forums</b>

As Marilyn has already pointed out, XI FAQ is really a stand-out. The effort is by a single person, what happens if entire community joins in !

I agree that FAQ will grow and we need to find out ways to make these FAQ better by classifying or other approaches.

Regards,

Subramanian V.

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

You are correct and with the introduction of the SDN Wiki we will then be able to see how much we can change.

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Yes, having a polite way of saying RTFM (Read the @#%$ manual) for the forums would be a nice button to push. Perhaps a STFF - Search the #$%#(& forums.

I think two things might help. In the BI forums, I think most members monitor the category rather than the individual forums. The sticky posts from the forums don't appear in this situation. (Actually it would also be nice to expain to new members how to monitor the category rather than an just one forum, because many new members will oftern post the same question to multiple BI forums because they are not sure where it goes.)

The other thing would be for new members, as part of the registration process, be forced to some sort of screen where they have to check off a box(s) ( a virtual community member oath ? ) where they must positively acknowledge some of the behaviors we are seeking,e.g.

X - I will search the forums before I post a question.

X - I will NOT solicit or request copyrighted or confidential information.

X - I promise to buy Pizzaman lots of beer at Tech Ed.

You get the idea....

I think most folks will take the time read, and hopefully think about, anything they must fill in a checkbox on and hit an <b>I Agree</b> button. People are used to that now.

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Another thing that could be done is to locking posts that have been answered .. many a time there are posts ( unfortunately .. ones that ask for interview questions or matrial ) which are marked as closed and someone adds their e-mail to it.

Maybe if they could be locked after answering it might be something to think about...

My 0.02

Arun