Doubt in "doubt"?

[ChrisSolomon]

Just curious...I see this used a lot in forum posts such as "doubt in MSS" or "doubt in SAP portal". I could see it being worded as "question about MSS" or "please help with SAP portal", but "doubt" just sounds odd to me...like "I don't think this stuff really works so prove me wrong". (haha) It is obvious (to me at least) that these largely come from non-native English speakers, but I was just curious as to how this usage of the term "doubt" might have started. Ideas?

[henrique_pinto]

Hey Guys,

really interesting post.

I do agree with Mike Pokraka when he says it is not from British english.

At least not in my case.

I'm from Brazil (and for those who don't know, we speak Portuguese) but I think this is valid for most latin-origined-languages speakers.

In Portuguese, we have the word "dúvida", which translates roughly into english word "doubt". And colloquially, we use "dúvida" to transmit the feeling of having a specific question about some topic. Generally, we use the portuguese word "pergunta" (which translates roughly to "ask") when we a more generic question. And we do have the word "questionamento", but we don't use it very often in colloquial Portuguese.

So, in the end, we use it like this:

when we have a "pergunta" (generic question) -> we use english word "question";

when we have a "dúvida" (specific question) -> we use english word "doubt".

Apparently, in formal english the word "doubt" has a quite negative connotation, refering to someone "doubting" someone else. But, at least in the case of native Portuguese speakers, that is not what we mean when we use it.

I hope to have cleared some misunderstandings out there.

Regards,

Henrique.

[Former Member]

Hey Chris....

No Doubt in wat u said Man!!! ....

Especially..."I don't think this stuff really works so prove me wrong" Part... heheh

Regards,

Tejas

[pokrakam]

Agreed, it is a bit of a bizarre use of the word, but it definitively not of British origin.

I can sortof understand Suresh's comments on "Any doubts?", but even that is not correct.

Doubt is an expression of disbelief, not quite a question. The reason we find it odd (including here in the UK) is that it implies a negative. Closer to something like mistrust. "Doubt in MSS" means you don't think it works.

From <a href="http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/d/d0359300.html">yourdictionary.com</a>:

v.tr.

1. To be undecided or skeptical about: began to doubt some accepted doctrines.

2. To tend to disbelieve; distrust: doubts politicians when they make sweeping statements.

3. To regard as unlikely: I doubt that we'll arrive on time.

4. Archaic To suspect; fear.

Cheers,

Mike

[ChrisSolomon]

@Mike

You forgot another example we are all probably familiar with...

"I doubt this project will ever go-live...." (hahaha)

[Former Member]

So Mike,

It would be correct to say:

1) I doubt these specs will be any good;

2) I doubt they want to do the right thing;

Then perhaps "Doubt in MSS" really means "I bet I've stuffed this up".

G

[pokrakam]

That would be how I'd interpret it coming from a native English speaker. Either that or "I bet they (SAP) have stuffed this up.".

Cheers,

Mike

[suresh_datti]

I guess this would help in saying that the 'doubt' usage isn't limited to the subcontinent.

~Suresh

[Former Member]

The strangest 'come-again?' looks I got in US was for using the word 'dickey' - a mainstream term used in India to identify the box/boot of the car ;).

I now have a doubt where that might have originated from!

[suresh_datti]

Without 'doubt' most of the 'Indian' English is from the British..

Dictionary.com has the following for 'dickey'..

"Also called, British, dickey. a seat recessed into the back of a coupe or roadster, covered by a hinged lid that opens to form the back of the seat when in use.

~Suresh

[ChrisSolomon]

The differences in word usage amongst English speakers (UK, USA, Austalia, etc) I can kinda get...like que or boot or car park or what not....it's just how others who learn English as a second langauge can take the terms and find interesting new usages. When I see "doubt" used as I said above, I always kinda grin a bit...it just seems funny to me for some reason...

A "doubt" to me is not the same as a question....there is nothing really asked in a doubt...to me, it means a loack of faith in something regardless of the answer. I guess that's why I find it funny.

Another, good example from a movie I saw recently....the director was trying to explain to one of the set designer/artist about a particular character...he said "it is a cricket that talks with God".....he was talking about a "Praying Mantis". 😃 Both are very right...one is just way more creative and funnier to me because I am so use to how I have always been told to use the word.. haha

[stefan_grube]

"in Cartesian philosophy, a way of searching for certainty by systematically though tentatively doubting everything."

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9052332/methodic-doubt

[Former Member]

BTW, did you know that the film is titled "Mrs. Questionfire" when it is shown in England with subtitles. Of course, this is the version with subtitles, since an English person can't understand a word of "American".

And don't get me started on Kidman's Kith and Kin ...

djh

[Former Member]

As an Interesting Aside, here in Australia we have what looks suspiciously like Mrs Doubt/Question fire on our $20 note. See

http://www.rba.gov.au/CurrencyNotes/NotesInCirculation/_Images/20_front.jpg

Cheers

Gaz

[Former Member]

I suppose we need to talk about FADs (Frequenttly Asked Doubts) or maybe this fad will pas...

[Former Member]

Does this mean the general principal of law is to be guilty beyond all reasonable question?

[suresh_datti]

> It is obvious (to me at least) that these largely come from

> non-native English speakers, but I was just curious

> as to how this usage of the term "doubt" might have

> started. Ideas?

One has to accept that English is a 'global' language & has been heavily customized over the years depending on where it is spoken. While we wait in line here in US, people elsewhere stand in a queue but without 'doubt' in both the places people are in effect doing the same thing.

To clear your 'doubt' about how it might have started.. It is a common usage in India ie Any doubts? & Any Questions? mean one and the same.. for me 'doubt in MSS' would mean a question in MSS..

any more 'doubts'?

~Suresh

[Former Member]

No doubt I'll think of some........

Gaz

[Former Member]

Without a doubt, this is the best thread I've read today..

S

[Former Member]

Hi Chris -

Although this use of "doubt" as "synonomous" with "question" is one of those Anglicisms used by our friends across the pond and those who learn English from them instead of us here in the US, there is a trace of this usage even in colloquial US English:

"there ain't a doubt in my mind that ..."

which is about the same as:

"there's no question that ..."

regards

djh

[Former Member]

How can you have "Anglicisms" in a language called "English"?

Gaz