2016 Feb 01 9:52 AM
Hi,
How do you shape your SAP carrier when/after 40 years old ? Do you still work as a consultant ?
BR,
Tahir
2016 Feb 01 5:06 PM
Hi Tahir,
First, it's career, not carrier. A carrier is something that carries other things, for instance a very large naval vessel that carries airplanes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_carrier). A career is the course one follows while making ones way in the world, usually the area of specialty for employment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Career).
Second, the majority of SAP careers are probably not in consulting. I don't have figures, but I suspect more people work in IT departments supporting SAP installations than work as SAP consultants. Certainly here on SCN a large number of us are customers.
And, among both consultants and customers, a great many of us are over 40.
Cheers,
Matt
2016 Feb 01 5:06 PM
Hi Tahir,
First, it's career, not carrier. A carrier is something that carries other things, for instance a very large naval vessel that carries airplanes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_carrier). A career is the course one follows while making ones way in the world, usually the area of specialty for employment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Career).
Second, the majority of SAP careers are probably not in consulting. I don't have figures, but I suspect more people work in IT departments supporting SAP installations than work as SAP consultants. Certainly here on SCN a large number of us are customers.
And, among both consultants and customers, a great many of us are over 40.
Cheers,
Matt
2016 Feb 03 12:14 AM
Matt Fraser wrote:
First, it's career, not carrier.
We must also consider this as overall context to the question from the OP. It is an SFLIGHT question and Tahir is learning fast... 🙂
The answers from others who are not doing the SFLIGHT tutorial and comment about +40 oldies are free game in my opinion...:-)
Cheers,
Julius
2016 Feb 01 5:27 PM
I'm not sure I see the relevance of age in such a decision at all.
Consultants have a stereotypical lifestyle - away from home a lot, living out of suitcases in hotel rooms, etc. Other SAP-based careers have different lifestyles. I suggest you need to choose something that matches your home life. Living away from home a lot tends not to work so well when you have a family with small children, for example. But there are people younger than 40 with small children and people older than 40 without small children.
Choose the lifestyle that works for you - I see no need for age to be a factor in the decision at all.
Steve.
2016 Feb 01 9:37 PM
Thanks for all your valuable experiences. sorry for the incorrect word, my mistake, surely i meant career. when you go through years in consultancy , so it becomes a part of your life style. I mean you work late nights and travel along customers either in the city or out of city or country and you used to live with this style. After all years, with this tough or good moments in work, will you eagerly move as it is or will this stop you to settle down such working in certain times(08:00 - 17:00) ?
In my recent project i had an opportunity to work with foreign consultants almost from five different countries. I see people are aged but they really ambitious on their job. However, there is a different thinking in local people(older than me, some older than 40's) as prefer to work in regular times even consultants.
Family is a big factor in the decision for sure. I just curious to know the average of people in 40's eager to work as earlier in age or want to settle down.
Tahir
2016 Feb 01 9:42 PM
I've never been a consultant. By the time I discovered the world of SAP I already had a family with small children, and didn't want to spend time away from home. Maybe when the children are no longer at home I'll be able to give it a try? Consultancy isn't just for youngsters...
My point is, the decision isn't age related at all...
Steve.
2016 Feb 01 9:55 PM
Then i should start thinking to have a family and at least 4 children I guess i make so complicate in my mind.
2016 Feb 01 10:35 PM
When I was 40 my daughter was not even born and 14 years later I still have my share of 16 hours per day when my projects are at a peak, this is not a privilege of travelling young consultants, it is just a matter how much you identify yourself with your work and if you enjoy what you do. Why do you think 40 is the end, I was close to 40 when my SAP journey started, there was not even a thought that there was nothing beyond 40 or that my life had to change drastically.
I was on management training last week, my company is still investing in me. I don't feel old and I have my plans to increase travelling instead of reducing it.
2016 Feb 02 5:22 AM
This sounds very practical and extremely good .. on the other side some people may think that they work hard (10-20 hrs)/ make lots of trips / out side of home very frequently upto age of 40. after that they must settle and make work for fixed hours(8 hrs) at one place for rest of his/her life .
2016 Feb 02 7:50 AM
Working 9 to 5 in an IT job? Not in my experience. No matter if you are an consultant or not. Like Steve I never was a consultant, always worked in the IT department of a company and you can't just leave when your 8 hours are up and the system is down. Or when there are update projects, big hardware changes etc. Weekend work is another thing, that is part of the job, because sometimes you need all the users gone to get your work done. So: working later or weekend.
Long story short: if you just want to work 8 hours a day in normal business hours, good luck in finding a job in the IT world.
Age doesn't matter. There are young people, who are exhausted after a normal, quiet day of work. I think, this is more a matter of character, interest and sometimes stubbornness of the person.
I'm not 40 yet, but I don't see myself changing my approach to my work or the hours I put in anytime soon.
Regards,
Steffi.
2016 Feb 02 8:39 AM
Avirat Patel wrote:
...upto age of 40. after that they must settle and make work for fixed hours(8 hrs) at one place for rest of his/her life .
And I think we should put a ring through your nose and park you out to graze on a field with green grass until you are 40... 🙂
2016 Feb 02 9:45 AM
I agree with you, 8 hrs is not enough to work in IT world.
But sometime deadline, workload, time constrain and knowledge plays vital role to achieve your goal in certain time.
Sometime it depends on company they only concern about their work completion either you work for 10 hour or 20.
What I was conveyed is to regarding some of the people who think like that, after 40 they can't do that for a long. So they prefer to work for limited.
and yes, to work in IT Age is not matter how old you are.
We have so many examples here in scn.sap.com and they have huge experience as well as they provides quality knowledge to all of us. Thanks to them.
2016 Feb 02 9:50 AM
I think you misunderstood (my typing mistake)..."What I was conveyed is to regarding some of the people who think like that, after 40 they can't do that for a long. So they prefer to work for limited."
not for everyone..
Julius von dem Bussche please take me to my computer back from field with green grass.
2016 Feb 02 9:59 AM
If you need to work 20 hour days constantly, something isn't right period. It wouldn't take me to 40 to feel the need to slow down. Your body will tell you that quite a bit sooner.
2016 Feb 02 10:14 AM
I never said I started with 40, with 40 I had already 24 years in business behind me, there were other software which had to be implemented and rolled out before we had SAP, and there were even other jobs, you can read about my journey here
Yes, there is some misguided folks who think you have to quit IT jobs with 40, even in our board.
But the same board had not hired younger people for many years either.
I agree that there are people who act and look like retired even they are only close to 40, while others in their 80s are more lively than those.
40 is for most people today still closer to the start into their professional life than to its end.
2016 Feb 02 7:22 AM
Agree with Avirat Patel,
Many consultant work for 10 -12 hrs a day but after 40s it would not be same.
2016 Feb 02 7:47 AM
there could be some who starts from 40 or around that age. However, generally average is not like that. There many reasons, about why 40 aged. For example, you start becoming huge cost to firm if you are in a customer side or a consultancy firm, so they start to invest for young, this happens most generally. Another example could be physically tiredness.
2016 Feb 02 8:48 AM
Tahir Öz wrote:
There many reasons, about why 40 aged. For example, you start becoming huge cost to firm if you are in a customer side or a consultancy firm, so they start to invest for young, this happens most generally. Another example could be physically tiredness.
Do you work in an old aged home which runs SAP and tried to in-house the application support? Or some other environment where everyone over 40 claims that they have to have a siesta in the afternoon because they are tired? (also that has nothing to do with age if you ask me..)
I don't see any evidence that being +40 makes you a burden to your company and the economy. It might however well be that you have enough experience and maturity that you are a higher cost to the company because you waste less time doing silly mistakes so you earn more.
Cheers,
Julius
2016 Feb 02 8:57 AM
Hello,
Things change according to regionds and countries in my opinion.
As you all know technology changes very fast.
We must keep ourselves up to date.
Otherwise young generations are well equipped and coming faster than us. Salary is another adventage for them.
Experience and good reputation is keeping us in front of them.
I aggree with you that after 40 it is not easy to adopt the new technology and have energy like youngsters.
So,
Update yourself for new technologies
Don't forget to certify yourself asap
Keep you energy
Find good friends for the future
Regards,
Yuksel AKCINAR
2016 Feb 02 9:14 AM
There many reasons, about why 40 aged. For example, you start becoming huge cost to firm if you are in a customer side or a consultancy firm,
Really? How so? My salary is certainly higher now than when I was in my 20s, but I'm sure I give plenty of value back. Experience is worth a lot, and is something the youngsters just don't have 🙂
Steve.
2016 Feb 02 9:17 AM
I aggree with you that after 40 it is not easy to adopt the new technology and have energy like youngsters.
I agree to an extent about energy, although I know many people my age with more energy than me.
But being able to adopt new technologies has nothing to do with age. Don't be fooled by the "Millennial Myth". It is about attitude and aptitude, not age. If you are good at 20 there's no reason why you shouldn't be good at 50...
Steve.
2016 Feb 02 9:21 AM
I aggree with you that after 40 it is not easy to adopt the new technology and have energy like youngsters.
I have to disagree with you. Aged people (including me) are really eager to learn new technologies and putting efforts for the same. But unfortunately, youngsters are not ready for this and they expect every thing should come to their table rather they go and search. It is very evident in SCN where lot of young consultants expects spoon feeding by posting basic queries or the query which has been answered many times.
G. Lakshmipathi
2016 Feb 02 9:28 AM
Really? How so? My salary is certainly higher now than when I was in my 20s, but I'm sure I give plenty of value back. Experience is worth a lot, and is something the youngsters just don't have 🙂
Agree with you, experience is the wealth.
2016 Feb 02 4:46 PM
In the United States it is illegal for an employer to funnel training and development resources to people based upon their age. I realize this is not the case in many other countries, but it should be. It would be illegal for me to hire one person over another solely based upon them being younger (just as it is illegal to do so based upon gender), although that sort of thing certainly does happen and can be very difficult to prove. It's just like it would be illegal for me to hire a man instead of a woman because of any assumption that the woman will end up quitting to raise a family (lots of men are starting to do that in this day and age).
It's true that as you get older it takes smarter strategies to cope with the demands of pulling all-nighters, but that doesn't mean you can't do them. It means, if you're successful, you do them more intelligently. Whether you're 25 or 55, if you're regularly putting in 12 hours a day, day after day, then you are not managing your job very well. Sure, such days occur from time to time, but if that's the norm, then you're on an unhealthy slide toward burnout. If everyone around you in your office is doing the same, then you're all on that slide together, and my advice is find a better employer. The smart IT pro knows how to use automation, alerting, and good work habits to get the job done in a reasonable timeframe -- meaning reasonable for both the employer and the employee. The smart IT pro, when faced with the occasional, inevitable all-nighter, knows how to use good and healthy strategies to minimize the stamina- and intellect-depleting effects of not sleeping. The smart IT pro starts using these strategies well before they are 40, even if they can "muscle through," and thus finds him/herself still managing effectively at 60.
If long hours and burnout mean that an IT career isn't possible/reasonable after age 40, then what does that mean for doctors, teachers, attorneys, and police officers? In fact, what does that mean for public accountants? All of these professions have a higher burnout rate than IT. (Which Professionals Are Prone to Burnout?)
As we get older, we have to learn to work smarter, not harder. But if we're smart, then that isn't hard to do. I wrote a blog about this last July. You might find it enlightening: .
Cheers,
Matt
2016 Feb 02 5:58 PM
2016 Feb 03 7:56 AM
Hey! Japanese do siesta! Japanese firms encourage their dozy workers to sleep on the job | World news | The Guardian
I'm running to the 40s (35 in July) and I just (3rd day today) switched from consultancy to in-house job.
I weight 2 things in this change:
1-family: with 2 kids I felt I was loosing to much lately, starting work at 7 am and ending at 8 PM. And this due a bad work organization I could not do anything on.
2-Prospective: my actual firm just implemented SAP with consultants and it's an almost virgin system. They were looking for someone who can thrust and help them with future choices to keep inhouse as much knowledge as they can.
This will mean less work? Not at all. But Surely the fact it's all pretty new and that my boss got the same vision-mind setting about how work has to be done will help (i hope! ) in a less stressful job
2016 Feb 03 7:57 AM
I agree!
My former colleguee is 60 and it's damn up to date! I could only learn from him!
2016 Feb 03 5:58 PM
I was a Basis consultant for just under two years before starting my "customer" in-house job that I've now held for almost sixteen years. The only reason I stopped consulting at the time was because my then-fiancee wanted me to find something that kept me closer to home, so yes, it was a family-related decision. In the end, it was wise timing, as about six months later the consulting firm I worked for went belly-up (along with a number of other firms in the dot-bomb debacle of 2000).
However, I loved that job. And, in fact, if you discount all the flying around the country, it was significantly less stressful than my "in-house" job that I've held since. As a consultant, I was more insulated from corporate politics than I am now. As a consultant, I typically had a much more focused set of responsibilities, and a clear set of deliverables, whereas now I'm responsible for a large range of things (jack of all trades, master of none?), and my priorities get shifted for me on almost a weekly basis. As a consultant, the "long hours" and all-nighters really only kicked in when a GoLive approached. Now, I don't typically have long hours, it's true -- I have a very reasonable and usually quite predictable work day -- but I have midnight and weekend work on pretty much a monthly basis, and pull an all-nighter (or a half-nighter?) just about quarterly, and an all-weekender once or twice a year. I'm basically "on call" 24/7/365.
As a consultant, I sometimes envied the sysadmins who would get to "own" the systems and thus have the "luxury" of optimizing and enhancing all kinds of things on them over the long-term, vs just getting them implemented and live quickly. That was a false envy, though, because now that I "own" a bunch of systems, I never have time to do half the things I know really should be done; there's only time to do "good enough" and then I must race on to the next thing that needs attention. Now I find myself in "consultant envy" where I could actually get to work, in a focused way, on a clear set of priorities from start to finish.
It is true that I don't fly around much anymore -- if at all -- as opposed to heading out before dawn on Monday (or more frequently, Sunday night) and then getting home near to Midnight Friday (my firm didn't have consultants onsite only Monday-Thursday like many do these days -- we had to be there from 8am Monday to 5pm Friday, with travel occurring outside of those hours for the most part).
I'm seriously thinking that in 4-5 years, when I'll "have my 20 in" for my state pension, I'll resign and go back to consulting for 3-5 years to "maximize income" before retiring. But, I'll be 55 then, if I do that. Hmm, who will hire me? I'll only have more than 20 years of SAP experience....
2016 Feb 04 7:41 AM
I see your point, Matt.
My situation was a bit different, since the firm I worked for do consultancy mainly (and i'm speaking about a 95%) for a single customer: we were committed for this customer, doing from the "simple" AMS to big projects, feeling all the mess but still being "just external consultants" when they need that.
So (please, this is the 4th day on new job so it's all blinky&nice&new&full of expectations! ) it has been a real and wanted change.
Suffered for sure (after 11 years, I was emotionally committed just "a bit") but strongly wanted.
I felt the same you expressed so well: as consultant I got "no decisional power" over the s**t I found and I had to clean, as well over the technical choices (when I started to write OO abap the inhouse tech referent told me he was not sure he was happy with that and that maybe I could switch back to FORM).
And I felt... castrated, speaking of work.
Maybe in a couple of months I'll regret my choice but, well, I always say "no complains, no regrets, always doubts"
2016 Feb 04 8:39 AM
2016 Mar 15 7:33 AM
2016 May 30 3:20 PM
Good comments Matt. I am 33 now, with 9 year old experience in SAP Consulting... Now I am trying to go to the "customer" side, but should I wait until I get 40 ? Thanks for the advice
2016 May 31 4:57 PM
Alfredo Murguia wrote:
Good comments Matt. I am 33 now, with 9 year old experience in SAP Consulting... Now I am trying to go to the "customer" side, but should I wait until I get 40 ? Thanks for the advice
Trying to go to the customer side?! Oh no! No one wants to go there voluntarily. It's the place where the very old (like 43-44) consultants are taken by the villagers and left behind to die.
2016 May 31 5:01 PM
2016 May 31 8:35 PM
Jelena Perfiljeva wrote:
No one wants to go there voluntarily. It's the place where the very old (like 43-44) consultants are taken by the villagers and left behind to die.
Oy! I would alert the moderator for that slander young lady if I could remember if was a spring chicken or not.
Now.... where did I put my mouse ?
Rich
(Aging Dinosaur, harshly put out to die by the young whipper snapper jelena)
2016 May 31 9:01 PM
Since I'm already ticking the "over the hill" checkbox in the questionnaires myself, I believe it entitles me to one free pass for "over 40" jokes.
P.S. There is a moderator in Coffee Corner?
2016 May 31 9:02 PM
2016 Jun 01 11:15 AM
2016 Jun 07 7:45 PM
So do I get to make "over 50" jokes now? I still feel very much chicken in my spring... or is that spring in my chicken? Or.... er, what was I saying? Oh, right, yes, absolutely stepping in my spring, or spring in my step.... except for that darned tricky knee, gotta watch out for that.... and oy, my shoulder hurts a bit in the mornings, what's up with that? And where the hell did I put my glasses? I can't SEE anything!
2016 Feb 02 5:50 PM