topic Re: Can you loop on a deep-structure itab within Smartforms? in Application Development and Automation Discussions

Can you loop on a deep-structure itab within Smartforms?

Former Member — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 14:23:06 GMT

I know that Smartforms lets you pass a table to Smartforms and that you can loop on this itab.

But suppose the itab has deep-structure - each row has another itab in it. (This is common, for example, in APO.)

Then within the outer loop on the outer itab, can you loop on the inner itab within each row?

Thanks for your kind advice here.

Re: Can you loop on a deep-structure itab within Smartforms?

che_eky — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 14:49:59 GMT

So long as you code the Smartform accordingly then nested tables are not an issue. Yes they can be handled.

Che

Re: Can you loop on a deep-structure itab within Smartforms?

Former Member — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 14:53:58 GMT

Thanks very much for replying so quickly, Che.

But here's one thing I don't understand. If you can do nested loops in Smartforms on itabs within itabs, then why is there so much discussion of how to do "control- breaks" in smartforms????

With deep-structure itabs (itabs within rows of itabs), you can set up the control-breaks outside smartforms and there is almost nothing left to do inside smartforms!!!!!

Re: Can you loop on a deep-structure itab within Smartforms?

che_eky — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 15:02:45 GMT

Oh boy, in my experience, there is always lots left to do in side the smartform! I am not sure what you are trying to prove, what does it matter if the control breaks are on the outer or deeper tables?

Che

Re: Can you loop on a deep-structure itab within Smartforms?

matt — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 15:06:43 GMT

I suspect one reason might be that many programmers seem to find nested tables (along with hashed tables, data references, inner joins...) rather scary.

The smartforms I've created from scratch have one main variable - an object reference. Everything else comes from that, which means that the amount of coding in the smartform (where it is harder to find, harder to debug and version management doesn't work) is kept to a minimum.

Re: Can you loop on a deep-structure itab within Smartforms?

Former Member — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 15:09:54 GMT

Che - Judging from your response, it seems that you don't think you ever need to be concerned about performance.

Are you aware that there are many shops which PROHIBIT developers from putting any code inside smartforms except very trivial little bits of formatting business?

Why do you think they enforce this prohibition?

Re: Can you loop on a deep-structure itab within Smartforms?

Former Member — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 15:15:02 GMT

Thank you very much for that response, Matthew. In my opinion, it is 100% correct - the code that does the "heavy lifting" should stay OUTSIDE smartforms.

And yes, I agree - most programmers still handle itabs like they were handled ten or even twenty years ago.

Do you know how many EXPERIENCED developers aren't even aware that SAP no longer officially supports the BINARY SEARCH clause in itab READS? (Because SAP wants you to predefine the table as SORTED either instream or in the dictionary.)

And as I'm sure you're aware, the only drawback to defining itabs as SORTED or HASHED instream or in the dictionary is if you have to insert rows - then you can't append initial line to the itab, because when you try to fill the row, you get the "can't modify key" error, of course.

But for itabs that only need to be read, this problem never occurs ...

Re: Can you loop on a deep-structure itab within Smartforms?

matt — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 15:19:07 GMT


David Halitsky wrote:

...

Do you know how many EXPERIENCED developers aren't even aware that SAP no longer officially supports the BINARY SEARCH clause in itab READS?

I moderate this part of the site so I'm very much aware of the level of ignorance among many developers - some even using really obsolete stuff, like ON CHANGE..

When I catch it, I deal with it.

Re: Can you loop on a deep-structure itab within Smartforms?

che_eky — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 15:27:12 GMT

David,

I do not appreciate the tone of your response. Saying that I don't think ever think to be concerned about performance is without proof or foundation. If you want to pick a fight I suggest you start your posts "I want to pick a fight".

I clearly answered the very basic question you asked "can you loop on the inner itab within each row".

Che

Re: Can you loop on a deep-structure itab within Smartforms?

Former Member — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 15:51:39 GMT

Yes, you answered my first question correctly, Che, and I politely thanked you for that answer, AND gave you credit for a CORRECT answer.

Regarding the second part of our interchange, I apologize if I leapt to a concluson.

So - why don't you help us out here by putting an upper-limit on what you yourself allow yourself to code inside a Smartform.

For example:

Will you yourself code a control break sequence inside Smartforms?

Will you do select singles out to a database table from inside Smartforms, instead of doing a for all entries up front, and passing the itab to the form?

Re: Can you loop on a deep-structure itab within Smartforms?

che_eky — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 15:55:16 GMT

David,

My comment "there is always lots left to do in side the smartform" pertains to the formatting of output into a form acceptable to the user requirements. NOT filling it with mulltiitudes of code as you seem to have thought.

There are many instances where code in side of Smart forms is the smart thing to do.

Che

Re: Can you loop on a deep-structure itab within Smartforms?

Former Member — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 15:58:50 GMT

Matthew -

When I say I am so glad that you are an SCN subject-matter moderator who stays up-to-date with his subject, I really mean that. SInce joining SCN ten years ago (then SDN), I have encountered some moderators who think the way they learned things in 1998 is still the way to go.

It's like my uncle told me - he went to Geneva in Switzerland on the US GI Bill after WWII for his MD degree, and he told me there were professors there who were still using true animal gut for stiching, because they didn't want to switch to "newfangled" synthetics.

So good for you - keep fighting tne good fight! And if you ever get weary, just remember the tasks of poor Hercules - particularly the task that involved cleaning the Augean stables.

Re: Can you loop on a deep-structure itab within Smartforms?

Former Member — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 16:04:59 GMT

Che -

You wrote:

"There are many instances where code in side of Smart forms is the smart thing to do."

And we would be in complete agreement if you would just change that to:

"There are many TRIVIAL instances where TRIVIAL code inside of Smart forms is the smart thing to do."

Of course, we may differ here in our definition of TRIVIAL, and even more importantly, what kind of code is even worth talking about.

To me (and probably anyone else who has been in the business for a long time), ANY kind of formatting issue is trivial.

That's why it didn't occur to me that you might be talking about formatting when you talked about "lots to do inside smartforms".

Frankly,I don't even think about code for Smartform formatting anymore, because the companies I work for have realized a long time ago that such code should be out-sourced to people who are making a lot less than I am. Just like simple screens for hand-helds, etc.

Re: Can you loop on a deep-structure itab within Smartforms?

che_eky — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 16:21:38 GMT

David - Judging from your response, it seems that you have never developed anything more than the simplest of Smartforms.

Re: Can you loop on a deep-structure itab within Smartforms?

Former Member — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 16:30:09 GMT

Hi Che -

I think we should respectfully agree to disagree on whether any code INSIDE a smartform should ever be considered as anything other than trivial code.

The reason I say this is because I still remember something a very wise professor told me many years ago:

If you tell people they are merely mistaken, they will generally forgive you. BUT, if you tell people they are fundamentally misconceived, they will NEVER forgive you.

However, if you think you can teach the community something here, then by all means, let's continue the discussion.

Give us an example of some NON-TRIVIAL formatting code which you yourself have put inside a SMARTFORM ...

Re: Can you loop on a deep-structure itab within Smartforms?

che_eky — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 16:52:15 GMT

David,

I respectfully do not have the energy to continue this discussion. Not unless you keep prodding and provoking me as you have been

Suffice to say that I have never seen a problem with code in Smartforms. At the end of the day

inefficient code is inefficient code, whether it be in a smartform, sap script include, report, module pool, function module, class method or any other carrier.

There are no custom smartforms on the system here otherwise I would maybe have dragged up some code for you. Mmwahahahaha!

Che

Re: Can you loop on a deep-structure itab within Smartforms?

Former Member — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 17:01:28 GMT

Come on now, Che - I clearly wasn't asking for an actual code sample - just what IBM might call an HLD of the "non-trivial" problem to be solved.

But if nothing comes readily to your mind that you can simply explain in a few words, then please be assured I am the last person who would ask you to exert yourself in this regard ...

Finally, it's true what you say that inefficient code can be outside smartforms as well as inside.

But surely - you understand that in general, it's probably easier to obtain efficiency OUTSIDE smartforms anytime the problem is sufficiently non-trivial that the question of efficiency even arises in the first place.

If you don't feel like responding, I completely understand ... go in peace, be good to yourself, and may the road rise to meet you!!

Re: Can you loop on a deep-structure itab within Smartforms?

Jelena_Perfiljeva — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 20:14:56 GMT

Is this really The David Halitsky or did someone hack into your account?

It's easier if you're also writing your own program to call the form. If you're working with standard output (95% of the time for me) and have to customize the form anyway then why the heck would I customize the output program too? If we keep at least standard output program then (1) we get at least some support from SAP; (2) one less thing to worry about during upgrade.

If someone writes their own program to call the form and puts SELECT in the form then yeah, it's just stupid. But when you step into the standard territory it's not that black and white, unfortunately.

Re: Can you loop on a deep-structure itab within Smartforms?

Former Member — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 20:27:51 GMT

Hi Jelena - yes, it's me. Who else would it be (as my Polish grandfather might say?)

I understand the point you're making about the trade-off between bastardizing an SAP standard output program versus stuffing a Smartform with code like a goose for pate de foie gras.

BUT - from my experience with customizing all kinds of standard output programs, I know that there is a "separation of layers" approach to this problem which will let you add the customization you need, but still stay out of the form.

Here's the approach - in my experience, it can generally be made to work and work well.

1) find the place where the standard program calls the form.

2) find the last possible moment before that where you can stick an enhancement - this has to be a place AFTER SAP has constructed everything it's going to pass to the form; also, you must choose this enhancement point so you can do your own call to your own form function module, and then exit before the standard SAP call to the form function module.

3) see what else the form needs that the standard SAP output program has not collected at that point

4) gather it in the enhancement.

5) call your form function module with what SAP has collected and what you have collected.

Re: Can you loop on a deep-structure itab within Smartforms?

matt — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 20:37:21 GMT


Jelena Perfiljeva wrote:



If someone writes their own program to call the form and puts SELECT in the form then yeah, it's just stupid. But when you step into the standard territory it's not that black and white, unfortunately.

Looking at the smartform I last wrote (four or five years ago), I see that this is exactly how someone has enhanced my smartform...